Episode 87 - With host Craig Norris and guest Ashley Remminga.
First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 11th October 2024.
Interview with Ashley Remminga, a PhD research student from the University of Tasmania's School of Global Cultures and Languages. We delve into Ashley's completed MA thesis from La Trobe University, titled “Gendered Speech in the Inclusive Fandom: How Gendered Terms and Transmisogyny Shape the Experience of Gender-Diverse Cosplayers.” Our conversation covers the nuances of gendered speech, the impact of transmisogyny, and the broader implications of Ashley's research.
Ashley’s work shines a light on queer, transgender, and gender-diverse participation within popular culture and fandom. We also explore her current research on how gender-diverse individuals interpret genderbending in anime and manga.
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TRANSCRIPT
This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.
CRAIG NORRIS
Alright, welcome to media mothership broadcasting. Out of Edge Radio studios here in Nepal, Luna, Hobart TAS on media mothership we explore how media can shape our understanding of the world around us and we're streaming across edgeradio.org dot AU as well as on YouTube and Twitch. Hopefully I don't know. The technology always fails, but do jump over to YouTube or to which if you want to see the live video stream and you can find us just by searching medium other ship. We're also on the DAB, the digital audio. Broadcast the B so you can message us either through YouTube and Twitch. If you want to do a bit of audience participation or SMS US directly into the studio on 048881177. I'm your host doctor Craig. PhD, joined by Ashley Reminger, PhD student.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Hello. Yes, for your audio only listeners I should also mention I'm trans. I am. You see her? Announce and yeah, I'm grateful to be.
CRAIG NORRIS
Here it's a great stuff because we are looking at this idea of fluidity change becoming and specifically what we're going to do today is dive into your I was going to say we're. Going to dust off your own. It's still freshly minced.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It is, yeah, more of a. Dust.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right now, it's not dusty at all.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Ohh it's a little dusty.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK, we're going to, you know, gently. We're not gently explore the MA thesis titled and I Love titles of thesis projects because they're wonder. Really. Chunky. They're like a light novel. They really are just the title themselves. Often is is in itself a light novel, so the the title of your thesis is gendered speech in the inclusive fandom colon, how gendered terms and trans misogyny shape the experience of gender diverse cosplayers? So we're going to unpack a lot of terms, but the core takeaways, I guess for me is cosplay features in this thesis. So we're going to talk a bit about what. The players fandom, absolutely. So people who are fans. Pretty self explanatory that one I guess.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
That that one's a bit.
CRAIG NORRIS
Easy. And then we've got gendered terms and trends. Misogyny, yes. So transmisogyny in particular is a kind of toxic critical.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Icky space. Yeah, so I I like to just explain it as like, this sort of intersectional misogyny and transphobia. So it's, it's a bit of like what you get when you go.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
A form of discrimination towards trans women and trans feminine individuals.
CRAIG NORRIS
So there's some really significant politics within the thesis as well that are being. Struggled with and challenged and questioned and interrogated. Yeah, absolutely. Well, all that and more coming up on media mothership. Actually, I haven't really got my Stinger ready. Normally I'd go to. A nice little Jingle. But instead, you know I always think I want to.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Just just do a little Jingle.
CRAIG NORRIS
Bring a musical instrument. Next time, instead what we'll do is we'll deflect into a YouTube piece. And the reason I've chosen this is that I've been looking for something that can be in conversation with defining some of the really interesting key terms. In your thesis and I thought we'd start with cosplay as that's a term which, well, well, it's reasonably common. Now some people might be quite unfamiliar with it. So we'll look at how Kotaku the popular culture online magazine. Kind of tried to define it seven years ago, so it's a video piece that they created leading up to a convention where they were going to, I think focus on six or seven key cosplays. But they set it up and basically they provided a little history and discussion of of how someone unfamiliar with this might understand it. Yeah, we're gonna pause it and talk to it. It's gonna be, I guess, a bit.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Of a reaction. Ohh, I love reactions.
CRAIG NORRIS
We'll have to #it now. All right, here we go.
Speaker 4
What is cosplay cosplay is the practise of dressing up as a fictional character, but isn't.
CRAIG NORRIS
Alright. Firstly is that true cosplay is dressing up as a fictional character. Can you do non? Fictional character cosmic.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, yeah, absolutely could do a.
CRAIG NORRIS
Nonfictional have you seen that? Have you seen?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I I have people dress up as like Nicolas Cage. Oxy. Yeah. All sorts of Freddie Mercury. I've seen a whole bunch. So. Yeah. No, it doesn't have to be fictional, although.
CRAIG NORRIS
Nonfictional scene. Well, yeah. There we go. Kitchener.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I I would say generally it is quite common for it to be.
CRAIG NORRIS
Fictional. Yeah, person dressed up as Spock from Star Trek with the years.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
But look, you're right. I I actually did see. I was talking off air about the fact that when I was at Dragon Con in Atlanta, I saw people cosplaying as ray gun, the Australian Olympic Athlete for break dancing, and there was a whole Reagan community it.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Oh my God.
CRAIG NORRIS
Was. Like 12 Raygun cosplays and they got together and they did a. Spontaneous breakdowns. So yeah. Yeah. So not necessarily only.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
How did it compare to the actual dance?
CRAIG NORRIS
Oh, it was slame, I mean. I mean it it. It really lampooned it in terms of there's there's much video floating around of like they they took it in turns to go on the ground and try and do that.
Speaker
Ah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Kind of helicopter. Move. Yeah, whatever. And some did the kangaroo.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Move the kangaroo hop yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
And look, you know, I think I think any publicity is good publicity.
Speaker 4
At one level, right?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I mean, we're talking about it now, so.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, it's, it's it's Australian soft power. Nora, actually, it was the best Australian soft power I've ever seen. It's better than crocodile Dundee cosplay.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I yeah. Actually I believe that, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
All right. So so moving on now to the next way of defining cosplay.
Speaker 4
That's sort of strange. Well, let's make a simple comparison. On any given Sunday, you'll see all sorts of people dressed up wearing the jerseys of their favourite sports teams. The guy with the mullet covered in blue and red.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK. So sports, they're setting this up as saying, you know, how can someone that's never cosplayed a Spock from Star Trek and Gone Shopping understand this? Sports is, is is the way to sit. So I guess this is saying like when you go to a the the footy on Saturday and you're supporting your team and you're surrounded by people who are. Wearing footy jerseys of particular players. And maybe they've got some face paint on their face. Their cosplay. Would you agree that that's a type of?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I I wouldn't necessarily categorise it as cosplay.
CRAIG NORRIS
Let's play. Because they wouldn't. If you ask them at the sporting event, I love your cosplay. They wouldn't say I am cosplay. They would say this is not cosplay. Yeah, I'm just supporting my team.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. No, but I I think there is some some valid comparisons with it. When you draw upon this sort of fan participation. In the acts of putting on some sort of uniform that signifies a certain thing. So I do think, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Vanishes. Definitely. Yeah, I agree. I agree. What it's sharing in with cosplay is they're both fan interest and yeah. So we'll hear what he says next because they think it.
Speaker 4
The clip explains it red face paint is not really JJ Watt from the Houston Texans. He's just expressing his enthusiasm for a team in the same way someone would dress up like solid snake to show their love for metal. Here.
CRAIG NORRIS
Alright, so love. So they're saying that the similarity there is expressing their love for the thing. It could be a sporting. Name. It could be. There from solid snake, do you think that that emotional? Outpouring is is a key aspect.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Of cosplay? I think so, but also I think where they differ a bit is also this sense of I guess becoming the character. Whereas cosplay you're you're showing love by sort of becoming this character you're whereas with sport you're showing it by donning a particular. Outfit. It's that sort of mentality behind it, which slightly differs.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, because if you go to, like a soccer match and maybe Ronaldo's playing and you're wearing Ronaldo's jerk. See and you get come in conversation with someone you're not going to be cosplaying as Ronaldo. In that moment, you're not gonna be saying you know I'm performing Ronaldo. Now you're you're, like, just a fan of his.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, certainly and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yet if you're, if you see someone who's dressed up as the Dragon Ball character, they might put on.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
The voice? Oh, yeah. They'll put on The Voice. They'll scream. They'll do the it's over, 9000.
CRAIG NORRIS
You know, that's right. Yeah. This is A is a theatrical dimension, but again, that that idea of. Of love seems useful. We were talking before affair actually about can there be the inverse of that? Can people cosplay something out of hatred?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yes. I I'm sure there is a there. I'm sure there's an example of something like that, but I think also there's a degree of. Appreciation, even in the hatred. Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Maybe if you're doing a group cosplay and you didn't really want a group cosplay, it's that thing you could find yourself not committed into that space.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
And it wouldn't be as much fun.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, I I think that's probably really.
CRAIG NORRIS
Do you know about? Hey, have you found yourself? Emotionally not expressing love in your cosplay, I think.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I have cosplays in the past where I've gone back and gone. I I didn't love that cosplay, but it was more I didn't like how I executed it more so than I didn't like the character. I mean, there's characters I absolutely detest, but I loved cosplay them because you know, I I have that still appreciation. Hello.
CRAIG NORRIS
So the uniform looked good the.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because, you know, I must admit, actually, I'm thinking about the rare times I've cosplayed, and they've always been very sad reasons. It's been what's the easiest thing I've got around me right now to cosplay because I want to go to this event and you get in free if you're cosplaying. And so, yes, I've, I've, I've cosplayed, but really badly. And I've got like, I cosplayed as the main character from Digimon.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Or which one which Digimon blue shirt?
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. I don't know the the one with the beer. The blue shirt one. Ohh yeah. Yeah, just because I had a blue shirt. And then I turned my the the dishwashing gloves inside out and thought that looked good enough and went in there and but it was really lame. And it wasn't at all out of love for Digimon. I had to explain.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Ah.
CRAIG NORRIS
What my cosplay was as well, and you realise, I guess I get well, I guess what my point saying is if you're not cosplaying out of love. Of. You're not really getting into it. And when people ask you why are you cosplaying as that character, you're not going to really do the cosplay performance and social contract that you're entered.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Into, yeah, I I will say though you can fall out of love with a character as you're cosplaying them. And my example is. When I dressed up as where's?
CRAIG NORRIS
Wally, which sounds great, right? Where's Wally?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It sounds great and it's great for the 1st 5 minutes, but by about, you know, 3:00 on that first day when everyone's going.
Speaker 4
It's so funny.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I found Wally for the. Thousandth time and that you you start going. Have you found me? Why are you looking for me when you haven't found yourself?
CRAIG NORRIS
And you get very matter. Yeah, because you start having a breakdown. You're like, I can't do this anymore. That's so fascinating that there are some cosplays where the theatrics of them, the audience interaction of them, is actually. Frustrating, exhausting, and unfun after the 1st 5 minutes or so. As you.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. So I I think that was, although I don't hate it, on reflection, I still think it's one of my more fun ones than a zany ones I've done so.
CRAIG NORRIS
But it's interesting, isn't it? Because when you're cosplaying, you might have an idea in the back of your head what the space will, how how people will react to.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It. Yeah, I think I think for me at least I know. Every cosplay is different, but for me I sort of look at it a bit with. How do I want people to interpret this? What do what sort of reactions am I prepared for? Am I not prepared for? Where am I going with this? How am I going to be this character and that so?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes. So with where's Wally? You would have known there would have been some kind of discovering you or pointing at. Yeah, you. But it was just.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It I wasn't expecting the amount of people it went on the news like channel 9 zoomed in on me doing it. It's like some people failed to stand out and and I was like, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4
Why didn't we?
CRAIG NORRIS
So they also made. You know, kind of matter joke about how. Yeah, of course. Where's Wally? Thing is all about finding Wally in a crowded space and it's really difficult. And so channel 9 kind of got in on the act.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yes. Kind of. Yeah. So I I love and hate. That's my like moment of fame of cosplay because it's one of the cheapest, most like least passionate ones. I sort of threw together and it turned out to be my most successful one.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because what do you need? The red and white? Shirt. Yeah, and like a.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Beanie some, like blue jeans or something?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, done. And it's distinctive, right? The branding of where's?
Speaker
Yep.
CRAIG NORRIS
Wally is is is clear easy. It's interesting, it's reminding me a little bit of the other case. I guess it's the. Is it Adam Savage's well known YouTube clip where he talks about cosplaying as the no face character from spirited away? Yeah, and he says that, you know, as he was. Yeah, he's. I think the question was, why do you love cosplay? And he gives this example, which everyone heard.
Speaker 4
Yep.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of how he was at Comic Con or something cosplaying as this character and part of the characters stick is it can generate gold for people. OK, I wish they want so often it's gold. And so he'd he'd had all these chocolate coin, gold covered chocolate coins and that gold wrap, and he was giving them out. And then, yeah, he would say that later on people, he felt something in his hand and people were returning the gift because in universe, in story, it's a cursed gift. Right. You're receiving these gifts. And he was, you know, that's that kind of. That audience reaction of him was a revelation in terms of wow, there's a theatrical dimension and that does sound like fun and super appealing because you're not being pointed out all the time saying I found you.
Speaker
Yes.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. So with the exception of that and a couple that I've gone. I executed that poorly. There's been, you know, I I don't think there's any cosplay of characters that I necessarily think are bad or I'm ashamed of or anything like that.
CRAIG NORRIS
But we have established not only do you talk the talk, but you walk the walk. Of your research, so you have. Most played and embraced it. Which, yeah, is is really central, I guess to being able to understand the community and engage with it. All right, let's now see where they go next in Kotaku's interpretation of cosplay.
Speaker 4
The main difference is commitment and creativity. Cosplayers often put weeks into perfecting their look and hours, getting fully costumed for an event.
CRAIG NORRIS
So what do you think about the time commitment? The energy commitment? Is that a central aspect you found of cosplay?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I think generally. It's I I don't know. I hear this argument, but I'm not always convinced. Like, you know, it depends how you define cosplay. So. People say it's not cosplay. If you're buying it's store bought and everything and others will say, well, you know, if you're buying at store bought, you know, if you're dressing up as where's Wally, we've established it's very easy to to cosplay. So I think like in that instance, you know, you don't even need makeup you, you know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, that's right.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
May not need a wig, you just put on a beanie and that you can. Go out in that.
CRAIG NORRIS
But there is a kind of hierarchy that speaks to isn't there? There's there's like, those people that are arguing, you know, looking. A bit snobbishly I guess about store bought stuff. They're placing it hierarchy the IT has to be all handcrafted or your grandma needs to come on. Poor taste it.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I I definitely admire people who can make full cosplay, so I've worked with I I'm not good at sewing, so I've worked with people who are good at sewing and constructed stuff from scratch, and so I do admire when people make stuff from, you know, original and they. You know, look at how things. That the material and saying this is the right material and this is weaved, I think that's so cool. And usually these people will enter the cosplay competitions, they'll win awards, they will get stopped by millions of people and want photos with them. So. I think they. Get rewarded enough to to throughout the days to say like you know that those who buy, store bought they're just showing. I love this card. Sector. So I think there is a place for everyone. I think it's just a matter of, you know, the people who do that extra mile like power to them like well.
Speaker 4
Done and this.
CRAIG NORRIS
Is what interests me so much about your research and what we're establishing here are the kind of positive aspects of cosplay experience right? That comes from a space of love. It involves a lot of creativity it can include. Quite a commitment to skill in terms of being able to handcraft for some the final result. But in your own research, you point out some of these fault lines, the misogyny, the transmisogyny, the the kind of toxicity. So. I want to get around.
Speaker
Yeah, let's.
CRAIG NORRIS
To that, I'll.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Definitely come back to that. Yeah, cause.
CRAIG NORRIS
It yeah, because it is interesting to me that they do think at one level when we define these terms, it can be utopic, right? You can end up with quite utopic narratives. Or what?
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Random is and what cosplay is.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. And we'll definitely come back to how that's framed, but yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
All right, let's push on.
Speaker 4
Did. Playing come from in the early 20th century, some Americans would dress up as the Martian comic strip character Skyjack, which is what William fell did in 19. Oh. When you.
CRAIG NORRIS
1908, right, right. So this is really interesting, this history thing I because when people ask me about cosplay, I often refer to Halloween or something I'll say. Well, you know, in America there will be Halloween cosplaying and so forth, but they go all the way back to nineteen O 8. And when we were listening to this off air, you were kind of a little surprised. How far back that was, yeah, so.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Because a lot of my thesis is focused around language and how language is constructed in power within cosplay, I had to look at how would I define cosplay. And so I was looking at all the different ways people defined cosplay and most will date it to 1939 World con, right?
CRAIG NORRIS
They get around to it and say, yeah.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
They will get around to. Some also attribute it to when the term itself emerged in 1984.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right, 1980. Four, the first use of the word cosplay. Where did that appear? It was something, Fan magazine or something, or police report.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Alright. It it was a, it was a it was a writer. I I believe a game, a game designer who wrote it after observing. I I know the name, but I've forgotten the name in the West. This is how dusty it is. It was a it was a Japanese guy who went over to, I think, World Con. I think it was and observed this act of dressing.
CRAIG NORRIS
1984. Oh. Right. So because yeah, I I. I assumed the term was Japanese, yeah, because I'd only encountered it first through looking at the Japanese scene. So this was a Japanese language.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
So he went back and brought it back and wrote about what he observed in this crazy place called America.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. People wearing starch, very. Yeah. So he went to, like, a convention and he saw. People win Star Trek costumes and so. And as he was writing this back for a kind of mainstream magazine, maybe, or I. I'm a magazine. He used the term cosplay. Yes. Wow. OK. Right. 1984 is one of the other day.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Magazine, yes. Yeah, there's that's where most do. But there there was because we'll talk about Adam Savage before he did a four word for a book. I know their last name is Liptak came out last year or two and it it goes back into quite far maybe 200 years into when people were dressing up for like masquerade balls and saying this sort of theme. I thought it was a really interesting take. So hearing this one was a very.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK. Yeah.
Speaker
So.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Interesting. It's not the conventional start date, but. It's a bit. Before, when most people say it's from so.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because I guess, yeah. What's interesting here is that it's in conversation with a. Comic book strip. It seems so. Yeah. It's in conversation with the pop culture text, whereas it's interesting going back further to the masquerade and so forth, you know that, I guess that kind of. I have in my head those images of aristocracy going to a ball, and they'll have those like a a, a a Flamingo mask on or something. Yeah, that's that kind. Of masquerade vibe they're referencing there.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I I think it was more fandom driven masquerade Even so I think there was this sense of it's not a standard masquerade like ball, it's more of a deliberate like dress up ball. So I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Yeah. And again, it would be the kind of wealthy. Class doing that do you think or?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I don't think so. I think it was this sort of lower class. So that's why they drew upon it. But again, this was the only source that cited this. So that's why I find it interesting for this Kotaku 1.
CRAIG NORRIS
All right. Because yeah, I wonder if you could refer to festivals, town festivals as cosplay like like those festivals in Japan that go back. Centuries, where you'd put on a tengu mask or something, or the the only a Sodor serene and people put on an ergo mask that anyway, it feels like at that. Point yes, you you're stretching.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It's. Yeah. Where do you? Where do you stretch it? How far do you stretch it? And I think that's what people have debated with. With cosplay in particular, and why it's awful to define and why it would be stupid for someone to go and write a whole thesis about defining terms. But yeah, so cosplay. You know how you define it. Some say it's only Japanese, some say it's Asian oriented. You know it, it's. Vague, so it's an interesting take and I I don't hate it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes. Yes. No. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know it either. 1908 and again, the thing that I think redeems it is that it's in conversation with the comic book strip and. And well, I guess we'll hear him explain it a bit further.
Speaker 4
Attended a mass skating carnival in Cincinnati, Companied by his wife dressed as Diana Dill. Couples two years later, a man was arrested for quote masquerading as Skyjack in Tacoma. These were the first recorded examples of cosplay as further advancements were made in technology. Sci-fi itself grew in popularity. It became so popular that in 1939, the first ever world com science fiction fair was held. In New York at that.
CRAIG NORRIS
So 1989, this one you're referring to and is there only the two people that came?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
In well, I believe so. There's, I mean it's, you know like. 80 years ago. It's a bit hard so but it's, but these are the the two that are attributed in most. Caused by even those who define it as 1984, when the term was coined, many will refer back to this as the sort of like this is another interpretation of when it began.
CRAIG NORRIS
So we're about to hear here is 2 people going to this, the 1939 sci-fi convention dressed up? As characters from the HG Wells movie, was it the shape of things to come I. Think was the movie? Yeah.
Speaker 4
A gathering sci-fi enthusiasts, Myrtle R Douglas and Forrest Ackerman showed up in what they called futurist costumes made by Douglas and inspired by the 1939 HG Wells Film The Things to come by the 1940 World Convention, there were enough people in costume that they held an impromptu costume contest. Where does the word cosplay come from? It's a combination of the words, costume and play creating the word cosplay. Why does so much concern?
CRAIG NORRIS
So they don't refer to it through Japan.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
No, they don't. They it. Vague. How they don't do that. It's interesting that they don't do that, but yeah, no cosplay costume play. Some people define it as role play, but play is the most common and I mean role play play. It's depends on interpretation of. What you want to define it as OK.
Speaker
Right.
CRAIG NORRIS
Pushing on.
Speaker 4
Playing involve characters from Japanese films or games. Play is a global phenomenon. The explosion of video game content from Japan in the 1980s and the translation of manga to the West. Influence and help continue the transition of cosplay from being centred around science fiction to absorbing the wider world of fantasy and video games.
CRAIG NORRIS
That's interesting to me in terms of that they don't explain. Why Japan may have? To find it and it taken hold as a term, right? It's not really about the Japanese side of it or nihonjinron theory of the Japanese uniqueness for them to have this this view. But they do. Say, what is remarkable is that it broaden the definition that it spread it from simply being a science fiction thing where. Again, I keep going back to Star Trek cosplaying cause. I think.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, I think everything can be attributed to Star Trek in some.
CRAIG NORRIS
Way and that would be that classic American costume that would be worn at a convention, I think Saturday Night Live and it was lampooned as the. Fault fan costume. Yet here they're saying, you know what was? I guess Japans impact within that. Why did Japanese manga anime video games become so central to this costume cosplay space? And they're saying it's. It's it's not so much an explanation, it's it's the impact of that has broadened it to simply you're not cosplaying it's Star Trek characters, it's now everything it seems, yeah. Fair to say?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I would say these days it's. Either people define it solely Japanese or solely Asian, or a combination of that and sci-fi based. So I would say it's broadened. I I don't think anyone excludes Japanese cosplay as cosplay, so I do think it's a one of the yeah.
Speaker 4
Pillars of.
CRAIG NORRIS
Cosplay and it's become like the default term if you go to a convention. You'll read on the schedule cosplay and and within that there won't just be people dressing up as Japanese.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, absolutely.
CRAIG NORRIS
Popular culture characters. It could include Spartans from the 300 movie. It could include Doctor Who cosplay.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Depends where your your you go. Which convention as well because you'll get like, you know, Comic Con, and that which is quite broad. But then you'll get like anime exclusive conventions and like furry conventions which will have its own sort of cosplay.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. It's very.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
That, that, that.
CRAIG NORRIS
Very.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Is a really good question because is it taking on your own persona? When does it become real? When does it become an A character?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, a lot of fairy cosplay isn't based. I mean, because one of the core things about their definition of cosplay is it's in conversation with popular culture. Yeah, there's a discrete mothership text. Which is the origin of. Then what you're performing for Fury space, there's no. And movie it's from or TV show. It's their own creation often so. Yeah, would that. That that, that on the spectrum would be.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
A different type of I I would probably. It's a question I've never really thought of, and I'm I I could go on a tangent. I worry about it, but yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, it feels like saying fairy cosplay. I've heard people say that those link those two terms together, but if I was going to a cosplay convention. Or an anime convention or something. And I saw someone in a furry thing that would be.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Fine. Is it costuming? I think. Yeah, that's it. It's where the there's still a lot of debate on what is what with cosplay.
CRAIG NORRIS
And I think it's in conversation with just a different set of of. Culture and Community expectations, right? Like if I went up, I mean, if I went up to a furry cosplayer, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to talk to me about what movie they're basing it on. It might be.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
What weird mash-up of animal? They're cosplaying like the? Yeah, the this is my interpretation of a fox and a deer cosplay or something.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. Well, maybe then it is a cosplay. If you're cosplaying a deer, you know it's this, this creature, this.
CRAIG NORRIS
Could be like, particularly if you've been talking about Disney. Bambi, it's it's a really like it's one of those spaces where you could imagine there's quite a bit of gate.
Speaker
I don't know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Keeping involved within cosplay. All right, well.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Ohh yeah definitely.
CRAIG NORRIS
I feel like we could talk for gatekeeping.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Ohh we could and yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK, but let's push on. Let's push on, Sean.
Speaker 4
OK, so who does cosplay from professional cosplayers who appear around the globe to amateurs who go to their local sci-fi conventions? Cosplay is for everyone. In that spirit, we're following six individuals. OK, so who does cosplay? They define two communities, professional cosplaying and anime. Sorry. Amateur cosplay.
CRAIG NORRIS
Does that does that? Work for you as a, as a kind of. Rough and ready. Who?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Does it professional unprofessional? I wouldn't say that's the the best way to split up. Players, but there's some interesting other things they've said, like cosplays for everyone. In my thesis, one of my respondents noted when I asked age, like, I didn't think anything would be come of age and they said I'm so glad you have 65 plus in your options because cosplay is for everyone. That was, I believe a quote.
Speaker
Yes.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
By one of the participants. So there is this perception and that it is for everyone and there is a sense that there is this inclusion and I think part of where we'll go to with my thesis in a minute is showing that even within this sort of inclusive space. There are still issues and we can't be complacent with this sense of. It is solely an inclusive space. There's still areas of marginalisation.
CRAIG NORRIS
And this for me is such an interesting paradox that on one hand you have video clips like this that will, quite importantly, celebrate Cosby. And I think there would be a a kind of. Culture, maybe of having to struggle with the stigma attached with and and explain what cosplaying. Yet even within that community, there can be tension. Yeah, definitely. And gatekeeping and so forth. So, alright, let's jump in then. With this idea of. I guess. Why? Why, why, why, why did? What was the motivation for doing this? Was it where's Wally? And trying to that experience?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Ohh, only so very much. For me, I one of the great things about my thesis for anyone who wants to read it is the first like 2 pages is about like a personal narrative and it is the nice part of reading without it getting too dry. The rest gets a bit dry. I'm not necessarily including that but but yeah, no I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, it is an academic.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Sort of outline for me. I saw cosplaying as a means of exploring my own gender identity. I wasn't completely comfortable expressing myself more feminine when I was early on in my transition. But I saw cosplay as a space where I could, you know. Cosplay female characters and be comfortable with that, so I I recount that in particular because my are papers about areas of discomfort and just and what not in cosplay. I remember as I was cosplaying a female character and I was, you know, very happy. I was there first thing into the Convention. Everything was excited and two people came up and one of them was playing the same character as me and wanted a photo with me. And so we took. I said yeah sure. And and and it was at that moment they said. Ohh, you're a trap and and so it was like suddenly that like a 180. Like I went from feeling really empowered and like I'm cosplaying no one saying anything and then there was this you are a male cosplaying this female character.
Speaker 4
Ohh.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
You're perceived as male and you know you're trying to deceive people as being this, like, you know, female, but you're you're not.
CRAIG NORRIS
And that's that term trap.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yes, right. And you would.
CRAIG NORRIS
Last week, when we were going over the project, you referred to this term. The the trapped him I'd been unfamiliar with it. I was fascinated to hear the origins of it. So as you're saying, it's referring to a kind of. I guess an incel kind of stereotype male who is very heteronormative and will then encounter something he perceives first as female, but then feels that they've been trapped into. That emotion of kind of, you know, enjoyment, celebration, empowerment to instead say. Oh, you're you're. You're you're not what I wanted. I feel horrible. You you've made me feel uncomfortable. And so I I I declare that I've been. You've trapped. Allah and you were saying this came from the return of the Jedi for Akbar Captain character.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. So, so because there's this term's been around for came, it would have been over 20 years now it's been in circulation. Many people don't understand the I guess the origin of this term, and it's sort of gone through this weird transition of understanding of what it means, how it means so. If you go back to its original meaning, it came out of around 2002, early 2002, the furthest back I could find it was in May and it was being used as a. It was a commemorative plate. The earliest one I could find of Admiral Akbar saying it's a trap in a in a. Van like a Volkswagen, and it was just a meme. You know, everyone was going. It's a trap. Haha, it's funny, it wasn't used for anything malicious. It was just a in joke amongst the Something Awful Forum. So it was used on like comedy gold mine and some of these other forums. And then because of the regulation of *********** on something awful, and I guess some of the content Regulation, one of the users called moot, went off and formed for chat. So 4 Chan then took a lot of these. Term this term. Them trap and was using it in sort of this meme culture of characters like Bridget in particular from guilty gear and saying oh, it's a trap. You know, you think you're getting this, but it's a trap. It's sort of the bait and switch sort of like Rick rolling. So they took that, they adopted it and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
Speaker
Yes.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
At the same time on 2 Chan and and Futaba. You had this similar term with Otokonoko being this sort of male boy, like male girl. Sort of. This sort of more girly boy. Sort of femme boy. Might be a more closer translation, but there's still some connotations there. But this sort of port, mantle of masculine and feminine particles to form this sort of term to refer to this sort of cross dressing, but even wider reaching diversity. So from that we got this sort of. 2 terms being used on very similar platforms to describe the same characters, and so they became this sort of synonymous usage between the two terms. And so that's what led so many anime community who weren't using it for a malicious context. But it was very malicious in the sense of it being used for trans people. And yeah, it's just.
CRAIG NORRIS
Horrid. Yeah. Look, and it's such a fascinating story to hear. The origin of your research coming from a space of. Of Philly excluded, that must have been such a. How did you go? Forward for the rest of the day. What was it?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Like after that the rest of the day that that really stuck with me, like the fact that that stuck with me the whole day was just. It's. For a while, it was sort of like I don't know how to feel like. I feel so mixed. I think I was sorting out being the character, the photo, the fact it was so early on. I had a hundred other things going on in my mind, and so it was like processing all these things at once and trying to, like deal with my own gender identity, this experience, and it just sort of. It took a while for me to really process what it was like in that experience and it it's really, but there's a part of the story I I didn't include in my thesis, but I'm going to share it now. Thank you. The the good gossip. One of the two people, the one who didn't call me a trap, but was the one cosplaying, was actually someone who I met. Again years later, doing a maid cafe. OK. And and they're they're absolutely lovely and they hate their that person who they were with at that time was I don't know the full drama there but no they they said Oh yeah I've got the photo and they sent me that same photo so I've got that saved.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right on kind of powered kind of.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. So I didn't include it in my thesis. I didn't want to because also with. Fix and consideration of including this full. This full narrative because one of my supervisors questioned like, how can you be sure that these people identify as female? And I'm like, because I know one of them male. So yeah, but it it was just one of those weird coincidence where I I think I even started writing my thesis when they sent me that. Photo so it was like a real like, Oh my gosh.
CRAIG NORRIS
Moment. It's fascinating to have wrestled with that kind of in isolation. Yeah. And then all of a sudden. You're reconnected in a really intimate way.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, and. And they're really supportive of me and everything now and that. But it was that sort of like understanding that. Language can hurt, even if it's unintended. It can still hurt and marginalise, and I think that's what my I guess crux of my thesis was sort of exploring was the good and bad of cosplay, especially for gender diverse individuals.
CRAIG NORRIS
What? What are the? Because the I guess as much as defining again. The term cosplay as positively as the clip was discussing in terms. But it's it's an expression of. The love it requires a. Lot of energy and so forth. It's also an immense risk to step out in the public space, isn't it, to be that identity? Is there something about that publicness of it that it's not like you're just going to a friends party and it's a costume party? And you're with friends. Still, it's you're in this public sphere with them.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, it's really interesting. And I think part of why I in a positive way is. That you're you're becoming this like for me, it's very much becoming this identity you identify with. And so for me with that character, I was able to, you know, wear a skirt out for the first time in that. And so it was really empowering in that sense. And at the same time.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
You you also you're you're out in society, you feel somewhat safe in this space because people aren't questioning you because they don't say ohh you can't do that or or like hey look at that strange person. It's like ohh, you're cosplaying, that's normal. So there's this sort of normative stuff. But even doing that there is. This sort. Yeah, risk and language was one instance and one that I sort of briefly touch on at the end of the thesis is talking about going to the toilet in your cosplay and that like, do you do you if you're cross dressing or cross playing and you're doing and if you're gender diverse, you have got like 5 levels of identity. Your you know you're dealing with. Going to the toilet is like I can't use the mail. I can't use the female. Is the gender neutral one maybe, but sometimes some venues didn't have gender neutral toilets. So.
CRAIG NORRIS
And I could imagine, yes, if you're overthinking that problem of how others will react suddenly you can find yourself, I imagine, quite naturally, completely tied up and unable to act because it's like, well, if I go to the female toilet but.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
While I'm dressed female, I am male. That's going to cause awkwardness. Potentially if I go to. The male toilet. Well, I've already encountered toxic male and the trap experience that's going to possibly happen again. What can they do it it it does bring down that idea that I guess as much as these environments. Kind of. I guess Zynga talks about that kind of magic circle that can happen in video gaming or whatever, or games where everyone agrees on certain rules that that when we're doing this game, kicking the ball through this hoop will mean these points. Great magic circle, but then you find that that the some people are gonna play by these rules and that the real world will still intrude.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. So I I don't I I have a chapter talking about this concept of the inclusive fandom, and I absolutely it's the one chapter I I wish I could rewrite because it's not the best worded and I think it's better explained orally than.
CRAIG NORRIS
Into the safe space.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Furthermore, like just in writing at least. In that paper. But the way I explain sort of this sort of fandom space is more like a leaking shack in the rain. So you so it it it's raining outside. You've got this torrent of rain coming down and there's you're in a field and the only thing there is a shack. And so you go into the shack to get out of the rain, but there's holes in the roof.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
So you're still going to get wet. But it's better than being out in the field, so it's the same sort of concept. You're still being impacted by this sort of wider society, oppression and the views of wider society.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
But it's better because at least you're shielded to some degree. So that that's sort of what I wanted to get out and develop out of it. This sort of like. It's not completely removed from society. Oppression still exists in it, whether it's language, whether it's, whether it's going to the toilet, you still have to contest with this wider transmisogyny, wider, oppressive nature of society, this wider control surveillance, but. It's better than wider society where you couldn't do that without definitely getting scrutiny.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's so. I mean, I think one of the challenges is maybe more. It reminds me of a more general thing that you know, people sometimes fixate on that negative experience over the top of those positive experiences. And as you're saying, you know, there, there's still, you're still in the shack. Dry enough. You're not going to get fully dry now because there's leaks in the shack. So similarly with cosplay. Yes, it does provide permission to cosplay as as others, as as as a kind of robot. So you can you can unproblematically it seems cosplay as all these different identities. A robot identity a plant. All these other. Things, but some identities may still become. You know, problematic for others and I guess it's not for you, but again, it's so difficult being able to to, to, to, to not lose hope that you know. Yes, while there was a one negative experience there, there was enough positive there to. You'll be feeling powering. Because as you were saying, how did the? Day go. So you had that one. Negative experience? Was there still positive experiences there?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Ohh absolutely there were many you know you meet someone you like. One of those guest stars, you get a signing from them and you're like over the moon and that and they're like.
CRAIG NORRIS
And you're you. You remained in costume for the rest of the day.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Athletics and you know, like when some people say I love your outfit and things like that, like you, you have all these experiences and some people say, gosh, you're so pretty and things like that like it's. You you get these positive experiences, but you know you every negative experience you need like 10 positive ones to outweigh it. So yeah.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
I say yes. But I guess part of this is also wrestling with having, you know, kind of more realistic expectations of fandom. It is an interesting theoretical space to unpack in terms of even fan theory itself seems to have gone through those cycles of at first being criticised as 2. Utopic about fandom, and you know, you could even look at early Internet theory, equally being too positive about how exciting this is going to be, not realising that you know you can have right wing fans, you can have, you know, a lot of anti fans there there there can be toxic space within fandom just as well as there is in.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
In politics, yeah, definitely. And I think that's part of what I part of my thesis is sort of saying, look, it is a generally good space. It is better than wider society in this regard, but. It's not flawless, and here are some of the issues and for some of the marginalised identities I don't talk about racism in it, but there's a number of papers out there talking about how racism is still a significant issue in the cosplay community.
CRAIG NORRIS
So within your research or some of the other examples you encountered. Around the impact of that gender diversity issue within cosplay.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Well, I I what I found really interesting was when I set out, I was very much interested in understanding how people really. Perceived the terminology of like, do you find it offensive? Do you find it not offensive? Basically why?
CRAIG NORRIS
So these would be terms like. Trap trap, a token local cross play and a gender bend. So crossplay is when, as you were saying the you're, you identify as male, but you'd have a you'd you'd you'd have a female character that you was playing as, so you're you're.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Is male, but you're cosplaying is Sailor Moon, yeah? Otokonoko is.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It's more that sort of synonymous with traps, so I wanted to compare the two because of that sort of similarity of these two terms. How are people perceiving these two terms? Do people know of these terms? Do they like them, hate them? Do they share the similarities? Will people say? Isn't this the same as this term? You.
CRAIG NORRIS
Know and talking Japanese term Japanese. Yeah. Talk called boy Male nor call. He's like.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Boy, boy, so it it can be like. Male young girl. Male Princess. It's playing with Kanji and that to get different meanings in that, so it's really like a portmanteau of sort of this sort of masculine and feminine particles to bring it together to sort of say it's neither really.
CRAIG NORRIS
And as you say, there's been awkward translations that don't fit, such as. Femboy.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, it's not quite a proper translation, but it is certainly better than trap, and I actually one of the comparisons is more so. And what I draw out of it is there isn't a good translation in English.
CRAIG NORRIS
We're talking, Nicole.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. And I I say some of the better translations would be, I think it's katuni, which is a term that we most commonly translate as **** ***, which is this sort of identity that. Isn't necessarily male. Female that emerged out of a lot of South. South Asian sort of countries and even the indigenous sort of Brother boy, sister, girls, and that to explain gender diversity. So I think it's just we don't have a proper understanding within our current English lexicon to describe this sort of gender identity. So we we draw upon these. Existing terms and concepts, but it's. Not right. To do that, we need to coin it as its own sort of term.
CRAIG NORRIS
Fascinating, isn't it? Cause it does reflect a kind of impoverishment or stigmatisation or avoidance of this identity. This, this, this being itself, the struggle for a term that isn't toxic.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
Full of negative connotation. And yeah, isn't, isn't there? Yeah, exactly using Japanese terms or talking the core. How is it talk, do you know much about how talking no colour is taken up in Japan is it is it similarly stigmatised or?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It's not. It's actually really interesting because it's been adopted by a number of the gender diverse community because the terms prior to that, especially Japanese terms, were used like okama and a lot of these really negative connotated.
Speaker 4
Right.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Words. So this didn't have the same sort of negative connotation. So it was used by gender diverse individuals as well as like cross stresses and that. And that's why it's not just, you know, a masculine identifying feminine looking person. It's also the gender diverse community and that. And that's all fits within this particular. Term talking, Nicole. Yeah. And so there was actually an anime series that came out last last season called Senpai. So Senpai is in a Tokyo noko. And it's really interesting because watch I I spent ages looking through the comments because I was like, this is going to be brilliant in a really academic sense and seeing people go, oh, no, they're a fan boy. Oh, no, they're trans. And I'm like, thinking talking Nico doesn't really translate. It's one way or the other. It's in this sort of middle vagueness, yes, and there's enough sort of ambiguity there that you just go.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
This here is its own category outside and we don't have an English term for this particular sense of identity and did.
CRAIG NORRIS
The show sent by. Is it a parody? Is it the?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Kind of. It's a really heartfelt story. I it was, it was a. It's a really beautiful story in a sense that.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK, right.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It it doesn't make fun, it takes it very serious. You've got, like, narratives of of the Makoto who is the Otokonoko character. Their their mother is very troubled by this sense of them being dressing. Feminine liking feminine things and it comes. Out of struggles with her own her own quote, unquote father being in essentially, it's not established whether they're trans or a cross dresser. Again, that sort of vagueness, but because of that and that sort of fear and rejection and dealing with this sort of parent. Going through this same sort. Transition. They didn't want that for their own child, and this rejection and everything. So it was really heartfelt. It had these sort of romance. It was taken very serious in that and dealing with how do you identify how you want to address the struggles of dealing with how to fit in and conform to society?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
So it's actually a really good story. And it's getting a movie. Thankfully, it's one of the few. Like series that actually gets adapted so.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because I was going to ask if you had any recommendations? Yeah, sadly I've realised we've only got 4 minutes left. Would you believe I've got 4 minutes left? I'm actually question two of my 12 Bradford fire. That's right. Yes. No. But I do feel it was. It's been so useful.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It's gone too quick.
CRAIG NORRIS
Being able to wrestle, I guess with defining some core terms because it does strike me how aggressively we actually do police. These gendered identities still, and they're saying cosplay is wonderful in that place. Space is central to it, but. Honestly, how? How safe is that police piece? You know how you know what? What are the risks involved? What? What? I guess with the time we've got. Left what? What's your? Current and future work around this. Have you finished the MA and can people access that anyway?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. So so many things. The condensing to. Have to come.
CRAIG NORRIS
Back out for for Part 2.
Speaker
Come back.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
One thing I'll say is that through my research, one of the unintended findings was that 30% just under 30% of the cosplaying community identified as gender diverse, just over 50% were cisgender FEMA. Male. I didn't look at sexuality at all, so it is a very queer space and a very feminine dominated space. So this.
CRAIG NORRIS
So this was the cosplay community? Yes, your your sample set was a kind of forum goes as like a Reddit subchannel. Or was it?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I put out a survey I put out, survey said, fill it in. Alright, I split it up. I just want I went into many different cosplay groups, anime clubs and just.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Where did you circulate the survey? Was it?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Fill this in.
CRAIG NORRIS
So so you'd have, like mainstream anime clubs, these would be the established ones in Australia, was it overseas as well?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Not just Australia. So yeah, this is only Australia, but it's also consistent with the Nobel finding that showed about 23%. So it's a bit bigger than that one, but it shows a very high participation by the gender diverse community.
CRAIG NORRIS
Just to strain it. So a lot of people identified as.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Queer it was the gender diverse in particular, not not.
CRAIG NORRIS
Gender diverse.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
So yeah, not not whether you're same sex attracted, not whether you're asexual, just if you identify outside of gender. Male sex, gender, female. So.
CRAIG NORRIS
And that percentage was.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I think it was 29.4% so.
CRAIG NORRIS
Wow. Yeah. So again, clearly people find this as a safe space and encouraging space in. Many ways to be. Able to explore, to be in between. Yeah, definitely. That's a really startlingly high I.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
It is a big number, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Don't wanna say. It's a really encouragingly high number.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, it it was really shocking. And so part of that is you can find the full research on online if you search gender language, Ashley Rominger on Google Scholar, it's free access. Anyone can access that. You can find my full writings on that. But also it's sort of. While writing it made me realise. This sort of understanding around gender bending and diversity in stories and narratives, pop culture, Japanese pop culture, and how it translates to Australian audiences was very lacking. So my PhD is now looking at gender diversity and. I guess gender disruptive themes in. Anime and manga, and looking at how gender diverse people may read these texts form affirmation or form affirmation or rejection of these. Texts.
CRAIG NORRIS
That's so, I mean, we're definitely gonna have to get you back here because I do find that when I was when I was doing manga anime research way back in like 96 for my PhD, a lot of the debate there was very heteronormative. It was mainly around looking at early Harem manga and anime.
Speaker
Yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
A number of texts critiquing the fact that a. Lot of the anime that was. In fan clubs and that was popular. It was kind of like I dream of Jeannie level. It was like Fushigi Yugi. Yeah, fishie it was. I have to get all the list of these kind of harem anime. Yeah, these kind of early love. You know, that's it. And those are very male fantasies. Yeah.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
The love penas yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Uh. Yet here, here we have also the idea today and and. And that conversation was certainly probably back there in the mid 90s, but the the kind of engagement and the public conversation around gender identity wasn't at the same fault line. As it seems to be at the moment. So it it would be so fascinating to look at how anime manga today is involved in this conversation that you're currently pressuring your research.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah, it's really interesting to look at the shift between narratives and what was being shown in one era versus now and the types of stories emerging and the themes that are emerging. And like isekai, being reborn is bringing in a lot. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I won't. I won't bring in, but yeah, like that full brought born in that.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right, this is what are you doing, Ashley. Now there's another key to him. That's the guy is fantastic in that portrait, bro.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
So yeah, there's so much going on in terms of themes.
CRAIG NORRIS
That well, we do have great news here at radio. Ashley will be involved in producing some pre produced short form podcast contents. Hopefully we'll have something to even circulate on Edge radio by the end of the year. Yeah, you're you're hoping to create some nice little deep dives into theory and example. Yeah, for people to engage with here on edge radio. So we'll probably broadcast some of that. And of course, be wonderful to get you back on media mothership to finish the next 10 questions they have.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Would love to. Yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of the masters thesis but. Yeah. They look so, so wonderful. So exciting to be able to dive into this. What a lot of it. I was completely unfamiliar with in terms of. So yes, I'd love to get some some homework. I'll make sure. On the show notes for this episode, there will be a. Link to where you can further get some information about Ashley's research, but thank you so much for. Being involved, thank. You and next week, we're pausing. Actually, there's no show next week or the week after. I'll be doing some field research in Launceston. On things I'll be maybe looking for spontaneous cosplay environments. Have you ever heard? Is there any cosplay in?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yeah. Wonderful.
CRAIG NORRIS
Launceston have you put your feelers out Sir?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I know, I know, there was the icon photo shoots here in Hobart, but I'm not sure about Launceston.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, yeah there is. There is fan action there. I know they do the a icon icon and the island convention spin offs up there. So certainly there. Feel free to SMS if you've got any information on that 04811707 you can listen to previous episodes of media mothership on YouTube, Twitch and at edgeradio.org. Au, It's also out on podcasts through your podcast provider of choice. You can find out more about media mothership on Facebook and Instagram in terms of people finding out more information about Ashley, you've got a UTAS research page.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Yes, I do, yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
So you can search at the University of Tasmania. Uh as well and you've got piece of other?
ASHLEY REMMINGA
Stuff I've got. I've got like Twitter or ex, but I can't post trans without getting banned so so I don't know how long I'll be on that for.
CRAIG NORRIS
So just search Ashley Reminger certainly. Utas, to find out further research that you've done. And yeah, again, I look forward to getting you on the show. In the near future, yeah. You know, it would be fantastic. In fact, yeah, I've already got 10 different topics now from today's show, too.
ASHLEY REMMINGA
I'll give you even more off air.
CRAIG NORRIS
That's right. Alright, keep listening to Edge Radio 99.3 FM.
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