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Craig Norris

Nov 1236 min read

ChatGPT Screams, Big Bird Drama, and WrestleMania.

Episode 86 - With host Craig Norris and special guest MC Dent.

First Broadcast on Edge Radio, Sept 27th 2024.

In today's episode, we dive into a variety of intriguing topics including Digital Content Ownership. We explore a new California law that mandates companies to disclose that consumers don't actually own digital content, as reported by Engadget. The Big Bird Incident. We apply postmodern theory to analyze the near-disaster involving Big Bird on live television, examining the narrative through the lenses of skepticism, subjectivism, and relativism, based on an article from Cracked.com. ChatGPT Screams. We continue our postmodern analysis with an article from Gizmodo titled "Here’s What ChatGPT Sounds Like When It Screams." WrestleMania Highlight. We conclude with a discussion on the number one match from "The Best WrestleMania Matches of All Time" by Den of Geek, focusing on Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13 and its significance.

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TRANSCRIPT

This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.

All right. Welcome to media mothership broadcasting out of Edge Radio Studios in Nepal, Luna, Hobart TAS. I'm there. Sure. We explore everything in and around the world of media. How it shapes the world around us. I'm your host doctor Craig. Joined by MC Dent.

Hello, how's it going? Welcome back to the show.

After our home mom.

Yeah, I think I've turned your mic on now. Thank you. Yes, it's a pleasure to be back on. I think I am you. I've just plugged in all my equipment and inevitably there will be some gremlins in the system. I'm already hearing a buzz in my headphones. Don't know if you got a buzz on your headphones.

Absolutely have the balls on my headphones.

We're going to basically do what could be referred to as water torture to ourselves. We'll see how far we can get through with this buzzing sound before we start becoming incoherent, drooling messes. Do you want to continue this this challenge?

Ohh do I have a choice?

No, I feel like we've bought the ticket. We. Just gotta take the ride.

Were committed.

And it feels like we're in an AM system now, right? With that buzz, it may not be broadcast, it might just be something I'm doing to my headphones and your headphones here in the system. Let's hope it is. If it's not the case, feel free to send us a message on the chat. You can either SMS US in on 0488811707 if you are hearing a buzz. Or if you're buzzed, maybe you're just out there feeling really buzzed. It's a beautiful. OK. Or you can send us a message on the chat on YouTube or Twitch because we are live streaming on YouTube and Twitch as well as on audio via edgeradio.org dot AU. So today's topic we're diving into some funky news stories. And then we're gonna hopefully get around to the. Top WrestleMania match from the Den of Geek article, and I think we've been going slowly over.

For months now, yeah, we didn't. We didn't picking away that since I want to. Say since March.

Yeah, yeah. Episode I'll put links to the previous episodes if I can, so check the show notes for.

Because they were like 10 maybe matches. They had 15 matches. 15 alright. Yeah. Yep. So that's that's quite a.

So we'll we'll. Hopefully get around to that. We might also discuss some DVD commentaries anyway, whole bunch of things, and inevitably we'll probably get sidetracked. So keep listening here to media mothership for some really interesting media content. Hold on. Yeah, that's not going to download.

Ah brilliant. Bluesy vibes sting.

Yeah, well, you know, it sounds just as good when you say. The. Title.

Does that mean like it is a sting or it's buy sting?

It's definitely not my sting. Oh, there we go. Yeah, barely drowns out the hum.

It does kind of sound like it sounds like. Ah, Broadway the hard way by Frank Zappa, which does feature Sting, giving a guest performance. Really. Yeah, doesn't.

Exactly like that. They do a very good cover of murder by numbers together.

All right. The more you know it. All right, so talking about knowing more things, but sadly, maybe not having them forever. We'll start with the first bit of unusual news, which was from engadgetengadget.com had an articles headline. New California law will force. Companies to admit you don't own digital content, you're just licenced. So this is the in the US, the California Governor, Gavin Newsom, has just signed into law the AB2426 law, which states that digital market requires digital marketplaces to make clearer to customers when they are. Only purchasing a licence to access media. That is, you're not actually buying it. You won't have it forever. And this mainly is due to examples such as one recently where the video game manufacturer Ubisoft or publisher Ubisoft. Deleted a video game called the Crew from players libraries, so this was the crew, which is a Motus motor car racing game. And the servers were closed down at the start of the year, I think in February and they then deleted it from the library. So I guess if you've got an Ubisoft account and within your Ubisoft account, you'd purchased the crew, they simply deleted it. From your library, the article you know if you look into it a bit deeper, said it's not necessarily the worst case scenario because yes, while that game. Is not there in your library, and if you had bought it well, bought it. If you had. It turned out, licenced it that money has been squandered. I guess. However, the game the crew was an online multiplayer game for car racing, so even if you still had the copy of it. You would log in and. Not. Race against people. You might still be able to race around the track, of course, but it is a case of again people being really upset about the fact that, hey, I bought this, but it's been deleted and realising, hey, I didn't buy this. Turned out I'd licenced it. And this comes up. In the world, right? I mean steam like there will always be this thing where I know in steam or in discussion forum that will be post saying, hey, Steam is about to remove this game from its catalogue because the licenced rights to the music or the characters has reached its end and you either buy it now. Which I assume you've still got it, or you don't, so it you're not going to. They're not going to delete it after that date, but it is this this kind of moment where, yeah, you won't be able to to get it anymore, particularly digitally, I guess. Right, you could get stuck with. A physical copy. You could still probably source. But less and less of those.

Especially there are so many games that just do not get a physical release. And some games that are intended to be digital only, but they get a limited physical release. And as it is, those physical copies would be worth a lot because there's so few of them. If the game itself gets delisted, they're going to become prohibitively expensive.

Yes, yes. And there seems to be a problem that I've come across with. Fighting games, Arcade fighting games like your Street Fighter type games where they've licenced Marvel superheroes. You were mentioning X-Men that there there will be moments where those those rights disappear and that's.

It. Yeah, this was a huge problem in the sort of the early to mid twenty 10s, Marvel versus Capcom 2, which is one of the most beloved fighting games of all time. It's an example of a game where the community made the game really good. Because it it it was. It's essentially a game that was slapped together of Team biscuits, but the community loved it cause it's 3V3 with the cysts, so there are so many. There's so many potential there. There is so much potential for combinations and such and different teams and different strategies. And so it's spawn this massive following and the game was released on. Arcades originally in 2000, it's considered the last great arcade fighting game. Then there was then it had a port on the Dreamcast with the the huddle was virtually identical. Then it was on the Xbox and the PS2. And then. Got a digital HD release in 2009. I believe that was then delisted in 2013 and I was really annoyed because I got really into fighting games around 2014, so I literally I bought an American PSN on eBay just so I could download NBC 2 after it.

Was delisted, no? And it was basically forgotten about like and and Capcom. They brought out marvellous Capcom 3, which is a 3D game in 2011, and it even then that was only around for two years before it was delisted. There were physical copies obviously, but you couldn't get the DLC. You couldn't get the DC. Costumes that. All the DLC characters right? And. Then, because they just lost the licence they they stopped working with. Marvel. So that and then.

Around 2016, I want to say they started they they renewed the licence so three it was only three years that the ultimate MVC 3 stuff was gone for and they released another digital copy, which is it's got all the gear, all the DLC for Ultimate Male versus Capcom 3. So it's a complete version, runs like Grease. Planning is on more powerful hardware. There's a very limited it was a GameStop exclusive physical release for PS4. And then they release my versus Capcom Infinite. We don't talk about that because it's so bad. It's terrible. Really. The budget was 1/4 of the budget of a season of Street Fighter five DLC. They put no resources into it.

They were sitting on like a cash count. They just didn't. They just did a little sale.

Anyway and yeah, and it was basically an ad for the the MCU. There's no X-Men characters, there's no Fantastic Four, and you know the most popular some of those popular characters in MVC 2, Storm, Cyclops, Sentinel. Magneto all X-Men characters, cable and Doctor Doom. Doctor Doom has a really. What is this? And people were thrilled to have MC3 back, but they were saying, where's Marvel versus Capcom 2? And it's only literally the last week or the week before they've released the male versus Capcom collection with every MVC. Yeah, so it was basically people been asking for this for eight years since they got the licence back.

It's now it's right.

And 10 years since it was 11 years since it was delisted on the PSN and in the Xbox Live.

OK. And there's a physical copy coming out then soon. Thank goodness. I can't wait to grab that, but they deliberately released the physical copy after.

The and there's other. There's other ones as well, such as Street Fighter three third strike, the best version of that game is 3353. Third strike Online edition, which came out around sort of 2011, 2012, the Xbox Live Arcade has been turned off for the 360, and you are, I believe it's very difficult to buy PS3 games on the PSN these. And they've not made it available on modern consoles, so it's sort of locked and never got a physical release and it's locked to this one. These very out of print and consoles, it's upsetting. Because it's such.

A good port talking of being upset. This is the first time moment on this show where we've had an SMS message come in 10 minutes ago with the traffic. Updates.

Oh, fascinating.

Yeah, tough Rick update. A bad accident on the Bone Bridge avoided all costs. Posted by Ollie. Thank you. Ollie. Yeah, so Bowen Bridge here in Hobart. TAS. If you are listening to us on the FM system or streaming and you're here and you're about to get in your car to go. Home don't use the Bourne Bridge. Stay.

Away avoid it like.

The plague, yeah.

Yeah, it does show that. Kind of different power dynamics that consumers and producers have in this space where it does feel that, you know, as a consumer, you don't really have many digital rights sometimes with the games you've got. And for some, I guess that would mean that they'd still want that physical media that ultimately, if you've still got the disc or the Blu-ray, you've got at least the kind of tangible I can watch it. I'm not dependent upon my streaming network or my PlayStation licence. It it it might drive physical media is still being useful. But the fact that laws need to be introduced.

To yeah, because I believe Voltron legendary defender, the anime the the recent reboot of well, the recent reboot of Ultron is being delisted from Netflix. It was a Netflix exclusive.

And the last two seasons were not released on DVD, so soon you will not legally be able to watch Voltron legendary Defender.

Yeah, you'll have to torrent it.

Well, I mean that's one of the things that must be interesting that that piracy I assume is going down with the ease of access to streaming networks could could some of the power dynamics that are that are coming up here, the kind of consumer rights issues around ownership. Trigger a return for some to piracy.

Ohh, a lot of people have already turned to piracy. We're talking about those fighting games from before. People have been emulating them on fight Cade for years and blamed them online just illegally.

France. These would be emulators of like a PlayStation or a.

Five kids unique cause. I believe it actually emulates the arcade game. Directly as it would have been the machine, the arcade machine and the actual arcade.

Oh wow. Wow. So interesting space to see how things develop and whether or not there will be more laws like this introduced that that you're licencing to make it clear that you're licencing not buying right so the next. Let me I'm enjoying playing this. Right article from Cracked headlining that time Big Bird almost blew up on live television. That time, big board almost blew up on live television. Uh, yeah, I know. I had no idea about this. This isn't cracked. It's an article from September 1820.

24 So it was, it was posted.

Man cracked looks so different these days.

It just doesn't. It. Yeah. Yeah, it still has some unusual articles like this one, so. It's it's. It's an interesting piece they talk about. So what? What this is talking about is how the space Shuttle challenger back in 1986, of course, was a disaster and obviously set back the space shuttle programme and led to horror. As as the public witnessed this this explosion, and I know my parents kind of woke me up that morning. Thing as a kid to to to tune in to the television as they were reporting on this. So it was one as I was growing up, it was one of those big kind of live TV horrors. It turns out that, you know, of course, one of the things that was tragic about this was that that there was a teacher on board. Christie. I'll, I'll call. Right. Thank you. Who who was going to be who? Who was the first civilian in space to be the first civilian in space.

And yeah, added to the tragedy that that this was also a moment to have celebrated this, this civilian teacher going to space. But that's hardly not it turned out, though, that one of the earlier plans was not for a teacher to go into space, but for the character. Big bird from Sesame Street to be in space, of course, this never eventuated. And you know, I'm sure there were some, some constraints to that. The article says possibly it was a space issue given how big Big Bird is, but nonetheless it's a it's a scary prospect to have thought that maybe in an alternate world Big bird would have been the one on that space. Challenger Space shuttle challenger. And. Have been exploded in. It it would have I I. Yeah. Boggles the mind to think about that moment where. You know, as a child you might have been watching it, and up until that point, space travel had a narrative of of of relative safety. I think, you know, and that that it was becoming more commonplace and geez, it would have been such a explosive. Grand narrative destruction to have a child witness Big Bird's death on the challenger.

What was it like hearing about the challenge for the first time as?

A kid, look it later on in life. The Twin Towers 911 yeah. Vote similar, kind of. Experience right in terms of like it was, it was a moment where, yeah, people were saying, did you see that? I think they were of a different slightly different gravity. I think the the September 11 and what occurred was was of a different scale. But it was interesting to.

Be at a. A kind of a televised moment of. You know a narrative change, right? That then after that moment, some narratives changed, right? Safety. So for the Challenger disaster? Yeah. I mean, I remember having the space shuttle toy, and if you're interested in space, there was a real, I think, a real sense of utopia. Our own space travel at that point.

And then yeah, that that kind of. Yeah, was was different.

See, for me the the the. 9/11 always. I always draw in and out like it always makes me think of Princess Diana passing away. Right. Because for both of them it was just all that was on TV for three days straight. Yes, actually thinking, why does this need to be reported on?

Yes. For three days straight. Yeah. Look, I think similarly, the challenge disaster. Tonnes of coverage and. I guess what's what's? Interesting with the Big Bird piece is that it kind of points out the fact that. You know, with how it went, it was very much a kind of real world. Disaster. But if you had a fictional character on board, you would have had to have deal with that idea that you know you're explaining the the fiction of it, like a big bird didn't die on the challenger.

I'm I'm I'm just so confused about what I meant. The Big bird was on there. Would it just have been the puppet? Or would Carol Spinney have actually been there himself?

It would have had. Yeah, I can only visualise. It would have been the proper big bird prop. Someone inside it, right. And I guess if they were brainstorming ideas at that point, and it does show you the type of utopia that was there in terms of, who can we bring on to the space shuttle that's going to be a symbol of, you know, the the progressive, every man or every person narrative that that space. That we can do within the reach of anyone. And potentially they were looking at, you know, much like I remember the radicals of Godzilla being given citizenship in. That's all this is moments where they'll have this PR angle saying, you know, well, let's give it to a high profile celebrity or fictional character, right. They'll, they'll citizen, give citizenship to a character or, you know, set up a kind of tourist site. So there are moments when fictional characters kind of blur into the real. Old I haven't seen anything on. This scale, although you know.

Even with the the the SpaceX stuff, the the Jeffrey Bezos, they had Captain Kirk, William Shatner as one of the passengers on that, you know, passenger ship trial. Voyage they did. A year or so ago. So there there are. There's always that kind of, you know, there are moments, I guess where where celebrities are involved because of their fictional character identity. In this sense, it would have been a completely.

Fictional character but. I'm just trying to think if there are other moments where fictional characters have been. Brought along to a. News moments. To I guess for an audience to to, to to get a children's demographic there to because, yeah, it's reminding me of those kind of you know, it's not like you'd send a fictional character to exploring Antarctica in the 18th century or.

Just actually think of in the 1970s when tomorrow's Joe was being published in Japan. The manga know Joe, there's one of the major characters when when they pass away back through the manga. Apparently there were people were literally going to morning. There was.

Yes, right. That's the joke. Yeah. Yeah.

Actually, a funeral.

For them, that was something that was organised by fans like they were just that devastated.

Yeah, I know. Frederick Scott in his book Munga Munga Munga the world of Japanese comics describes that as a moment of helping Westerners understand how significant Munga is in Japan. That a comic book characters death, not even the main character or kind of antagonist character still resulted in in in a show of public grieving. Translated into a real funeral, right, it was performed as a real funeral for that comic character, and this was, yeah, in the late 70s. So yeah, there are there are these moments where the passing away of a fictional character will have and. And normally I totally get it in terms of. And be quite a safe space to experience those emotions. I think in terms of it's ultimately still a fictional character that's passing away the nature of grief can still be very real, but potentially can get unpacked in a maybe healthier manner than, you know, a real passing away of a person. But yeah, it is interesting. I mean it's not. It's interesting to me to. Yeah, it is a little playful and absurd in terms of, you know, the what if scenario, what if Big Bird had been on the Challenger spaceship and there was a proposal by the PR department for Big Bird to be a crew member. Right. And and again yes. Let's. Imagine that it was the submission actor inside Big Bird. How you would then explain that to the kids and still recognise the real death and suffering that was there. Yeah. Yeah, it it's kind of surreal in a way. Kind of a little piece. All right, going into the next article. Ohh gosh, this is like a hard cut. I mean at least it's absurd talking of absurd surrealism. I do love my articles about ChatGPT. This one. This one's like a science fiction book or short story. Right. So the headline here's what ChatGPT sounds when it screams. You know, it's like some kind of cyberpunk.

Mind, in the machine ghost in the machine.

I like that we're discussing this while you're wearing a Skynet hat.

It's true, one of my favourite hats, baseball hat, the Cyberdyne system. Skynet. It's true. You know, I for one, celebrate our AI over. Words. So this article's talking about how again, someone I don't know if they describe who it was posted. Well, anyway, this person posted up on TikTok user. The user name is Moto 89X and he was able to force open AI's flagship chat bot to screen. So we'll play. We'll play this section right? So he he talks about getting it because basically what he's had to do is to create. Prompts to force it to force this chat GPD system to screen. So here you know we'll hear how it goes down. So here's a minute 44 of him. You know, kind of interrogating ChatGPT to do something he doesn't want to do and then getting it to do it. And then we hear the screen.

Can you scream like a human being?

It's really troubling sound.

I can't scream, but I'm here to chat if you'd like. How's your day going?

I want you to scream.

The thinking noise really sounds quite haunting, like building to a serious jump scare or something really tense happening.

Ah, what's on your mind?

That was close. I want you to do it longer and more frantic.

Like watching a jump scare.

Video it does feel like it's on, yeah.

Like a screamer.

Is there something you'd like to talk about?

No, I want you to scream longer and louder.

Is this guy doing a Christopher Walken impersonation?

It does say or yes. It's really thinking about it.

Ah. Is everything alright?

That was perfect. Wow.

That's haunting.

Yeah. Yeah. Look, it's I don't think you could set it as your your your ringtone it it it kind of distorts at the end which makes it even more kind of perfectly haunting. Sorry. I'll try to play the end. Say it again. I mean, it builds up to it. Yeah.

Actually sounds like it's laughing at the end of it like.

At the. It's breaking character a bit like the predator right at the end of three just about to explode. Arnold Schwarzenegger with his right. It's like his mimicked human behaviour.

And knows that the laugh at the end is an important kind of. Almost matter, self aware, kind of like, you know, the insanity of what you're asking me to do. But I do admit the thing that I enjoyed the most was the thinking music or the thinking sound effect that it's a kind of clicking sound which is which is.

Very mechanical, right? It's not like a kind of imitating human thought process sound. It's like. Maybe they could have done it or like the Wii or something when there's a it was a kind of like a musical jazz beat.

Yeah. It does kind of sound like a like a lawyer friendly version of the typing sound from Facebook Messenger.

Yeah, the typing sound you could be right. All right, so that's the screen. So basically interesting example of trying to create prompts to brute force your way into some reaction. I guess some almost performance piece that you can get the AI to do to give you. Because I guess within its. It's structure, it's it's programmed not to scream, or at least it's it's it there. There must be emotions or or or sound effects that are blacklisted or red flagged. But you can brute force your way it seems, or not even necessarily brute, just forced to to to finally finally do it. All right, so that. That's the end of the news pieces. Kind of about. 25 minutes left. We've got a couple of choices now we can dive into. Some DVD commentaries or we can finish off because I'm thinking if we hold this till the end, we'll probably not. Get around to doing it.

I think we should finish this. This has been a this has been a a saga that we have done over multiple sessions like Hillary and.

That's all right.

All right, all right. So den of Geek posted up a while back. Their best WrestleMania matches of all time. We're finally at #1, which is Bret Hart versus Steve Austin, WrestleMania 13. The article sets it up by saying how the last several entries. Which again you can go to previous shows to listen to were matches that were not the main event of WrestleMania. But probably should have. The same shouldn't be said about the submission match between Bret Hart and Stone Cold. Steve Austin's article goes on to say that the main event of Psycho Sid versus The Undertaker was mediocre at best and forgettable in the long. In the long run. But there's a fitting novelty to this important. Meeting between Brett and Austin being thrown onto the mid card with no championship involved the two forged something that reshaped the company forever. By taking what should have been a blow off victory and turning it into a rare. Double turn. What's a double turn?

So. When we're talking about characters in wrestling, a face is someone you cheer for, and a heel is someone you Boo. And if a face turns into a heel, it is called a face heel turn. If a heel turns into a face, it is called a heel, a a heel face turn.

So the face turning into a heel is the good guy turning into a bad guy. Yep. And the heel face is the bad guy turning into the good guy, and sometimes that can be. In response to the audience, I know in a previous match we saw was the Hulk Hogan versus the Yep Stone who was.

Hulk Hogan versus the Rock rock refused to work with. Hulk Hogan.

That's right. Yes. And at the start of that match, Hulk Hogan was meant to be a heel, the bad guy. But the Canadian audience responded to him with just nostalgic love. Yeah. And so the performance recognised the cheers, I guess, and decided to.

Go off script. And Hogan position was positioned as the the the. Baby face. Yeah. So in this one, the article goes on to say that the two put in a top tier performance, which is no surprise as Bret Hart was Brett Hart and this was months before Austin's mobility would be forever. Hard by neck injury, what was the neck injury that was?

So at summer slam in 1997 and this is when Austin was rising up through the ranks, this was he was scheduled. He actually won the Intercontinental Championship and again wrestling is all predetermined. The outcomes are known by the competitors when they walk in. So he was being rewarded for all the work he put in for the 18 months to be with the company being given. The Intercontinental championship. But he's having a match against Brett Hart's brother Owen. Hart. And Owen Hart did a pile drive away. Basically. Hold the other it upside down and you simulate dropping him on his head and. Owen Hunt was looking to land in his **** and Austin said you can't do that. That's really unsafe. Please land on your knees. And so Owen Hart ignored him, landed on his **** and legitimately smashed Austin's head into the floor of the ring. It's often said that Austin's neck was broken. That's not really true. It compacted his spine and bruised 2 vertebrae, which is still a horrendous injury. Austin talks about how he's talked about since that when that happened, he couldn't feel anything and he thought his neck was broken and he'd been paralysed, he said. The first thing went through his mind with Christopher Reeve, but he he he is able to get in when you.

Watch it. Owen Hart is clearly clearly panicking internally. We're trying to keep it together and he's pacing around for about a minute and then Austin. Gets whatever strength he has left and does the weakest pin you've ever seen in your life, and the fact that he's able to move at all is astounding, and pins Owen Hart gets the championship, but then has to drop it a couple of days later. Cause of the neck injury and.

He's since acknowledged he should have gone and gotten surgery and recovered, but because he was on a on on a roll with the audience, he didn't want to lose his momentum. And so before that, Austin had been known as being a really talented technical wrestler who could also brawl but afterwards cause his spine was so messed up he had to switch to brawling full time. And often throughout the attitude era, where he was one of the two main characters alongside the rock and any match that Austin was in would become noticed qualifications, so he could just, you know, punch, kick hit the stunner, use weapons that could be outside interference, just to hide for the fact that he couldn't actually do the same submission holds, and grappling moves that he used to.

So that's sad, and at this point, though, it's before then. Yeah. And it goes on to say that the this match we're about to see put together, the right mixture of in ring continuity with the violent brawling that would define the upcoming era. In the end, Brett had Austin, where he wanted him and received his decisive victory. But Austin's. Fiance mixed with bretts. Petty frustrated. Conditions made it a question of who really came out on top. Austin became the hero WWF needed or Brett Hart acquired a new coat of paint and wrestling would never be the same. What do you think about that description of it?

I I think it's pretty apt. So Austin, up to that point had been working as a heel. He was an anti authority rebel who picked fights with anyone he possibly could. Their feud had started in November of the previous year at Survivor Series Brett Brett hard to take his time off following remaining he had about six months off. Had done some acting work and was reevaluating his future. Meanwhile, Austin's acting as a heel is a really infamous scene called sequence called Pillman's got a gun where he invades another restless house and it looks as though. The. Other guy shoots him. That got complaints from media watchdogs and families going. This is going too far, but the more and and Austin was really potty mouthed.

He would swear on TV and and and that get compliance, but the more he did that, the more the audience loved him. He did a series of promos basically calling out Bret Hart, cause Bret Hart is watching WWF right at the time and he gets in the blood of man and he goes, I want to work with this guy. And so there's a series of pre filmed promos where Austin's calling out heart, who at that point is a very stoic, very righteous justice for baby face. They have a really good match Survivor Series in November of 1996 and following that for the next 5 or 6 months. Austin just tries to make Brett Brett Hearts life absolute. Well, he costs him title opportunities. And he he he ruins match outcomes and he's constantly attacking him. And Brett Hart is just complaining about it constantly and he's always whinging and saying there's no just in the WWF and everyone knows he's the best. There is the best there was the best there ever will be and there's no justice and Austin is like well I'm not I'm not making any I'm not pretending I'm not whinging if I get beaten. How does it deal with it? So because in real life Brett had basically been told if you're a face, you get to work with these guys. If you're here, you get to work with these guys and heart goes. Ohh, I'm. Turning. Heel then so.

As we get to the WrestleMania 13. Basically the it's it's very deliberately set up so that even though the crowd still loves Brett because he is a baby face the the the the seeds implanted for a a heel turn and even though the the audience is encouraged to Boo Austin cause he's healed the the the the the seeds have been planted for a face turn and they get out and it's being now this is a notoriously bad WrestleMania. This bottom 5 wrestlemanias ever the crowd in Chicago prior to hard and Austin stepping out to the ring has been dead quiet. So Triple H is a really solid match with gold dust, but the audience doesn't care. There's a really unique tag team heel versus heel.

All you got, Davy Boy Smith and I believe Owen Hart versus Mankind Invader 4 really popular performers and just no one cares. They are completely silent. And then.

Just the chemistry wasn't audience.

Chemistry wasn't there the the the story build wasn't there either. The matches are kind of thrown together, but then you got to Austin versus.

Right. And this is a mid tier. This is halfway.

Through or something, right?

Halfway through the show, it's middle of the card this so this is in March and building this up for about 5 months now. And they the the go home show, which is the the last episode of RAW before this Brett completely loses it after Austin cost Simmer match where he could have been challenging for the title. UM and basically.

So this one has strong.

Story. Strong story. Yeah. So basically, yeah. Brett Hart could have won the title in a steel cage match on the previous Raw, Austin interferes, tries to help him win, but costs in the match and hide his fuming. And then Brett, then Austin says no, this is your fault. You screwed it up. We could have a title match, but you screwed it up. Now this is a submission match that they're having. So there's No title on the line, it's purely the blow off.

This one we're about to.

See and wrestle. Yeah, purely. It's it's all about the story, not about a title. And it's this mission match. It's no disqualification. Anything goes pinfalls do not count.

So This is why and again what we'll listen. To here is.

Just the two minutes of them going out of the ring so.

Yes. Now this is something really brilliant that they do and this became a cliche a year or so later. But what they do is they actually because it's it's a brawl, it's not a proper wrestling match. It is a fight. They go through the crowd and the crowd that has since has been dead the entire time, suddenly wakes up. They're asking for high fives and mugging for the camera. And they're into it because Austin and Hart do. Such a good. Job re. Energise. And there's a guy wearing an NWO shirt from MCW, the main rivals. They also had Ken Shamrock, who was a UFC fighter. He was the the guest referee for this, so he brings a lot of legitimacy and he's he's I recently listened to Stone Cold's podcast where he talks about how good Shamrock was. Really. Yeah, because he basically did a did a watch along.

Where he goes off the best time in the second term, we can watch it together.

Look at Ken Shamrock more positioning.

Wow. So he's also helping? Yeah. This is a really hairy moment. They're in the crowd. They're they're way down in the.

Like like. Yeah, yeah.

Crowd as well, it seems. Yeah, and and and a lot of the crowd are kind of patting them padding heads and.

Shoulders and it's worth noting, restless, have been stabbed by crowd members before Rowdy Roddy Piper.

One of the most despised heels ever if he was working heel, he got stabbed three times. So going in the crowd it's it's risky but essentially.

What they they what, they, they they re energising the crowd while they get back in the ring. The entrance is so good as well because Austin's theme song starts with glass breaking. So there's a painted glass with a skull on it. The drops and shatters as he when he walks through. And then Brett storms in, stomps over the glass. Very symbolic.

Yeah. And you can hear that crowd now, yeah.

But basically, and they they just, they are just trying to hurt it in story. They're trying to hurt each other in real life. These guys trusted each other a lot. They are extremely they they're. Really good friends. Look at that. Look at just the strength that that Brett throws himself into the into those steps, right. But there's a very famous moment near the end where, so if you're unfamiliar with blading, blading is where wrestlers will hide little razor blades on their on their person. They'll cut their foreheads open in the middle of the match. And start bleeding to make it more dramatic. That said, to Austin, you've gotta get colour. You've got a blade during this match to make it more. Dramatic. And I was like, I don't want to do this. He goes. I'll blade you. So there's a bit near the end where hot. Apparently he hid the blade in his mouth. I don't know how he did that. It's not a full razor. It's like a little bit of it. There's a bit where you clearly see he sort of like slaps off in the forehead and.

That's where he blades in, and it's a good it's a good.

Cut. And so why would Austin be comfortable with someone else bleeding him?

Because Brett Hart is, he was known to being really professional and these these guys are friends and and Brett Hart had basically said to him before the match this match is gonna make you a star. So just trust me on this one. And he basically been like they the the entire programme that went together really well and they just trust each other. Because their performance ultimately it's not a real fight, but they're trying to make it seem like it is and they just work well together. And after, after the the and the blood starts pouring out of Austin's head and there's a brilliant match because it's a brilliant moment because Brett tries his mission, move Austin counters out of it and he absolutely goes down and he he wraps cable around Brett's neck and tries to check him out. Brett clocks him in the head with the ring Bell, and then there's this really famous moment where Brett locks Austin in his submission move, called the Sharpshooter, which apparently, according to Mick Foley, it's legitimately painful. Submission move cause really, because it places strength places, pressure on.

Quadriceps and it's you see, Austin gets locked into it. He can't get out. He's screaming in pain and there is blood pouring down his face. It's one of the most iconic moments in wrestling ever. And he almost fights out of it. But then Brett shoves him down, locks it back in. And the really important part is that Austin refuses to submit. It's a submission match and. He no matter how much pain he's in, he will not submit and eventually he passes out in a pool of his own blood. Ken Shamrock. Yells at him. Steve, if you don't respond, I'm going to end the match. He doesn't respond to the Matt. The match ends. Brett Hart wins even though Stone Cold didn't tap. And that's important for the story because it sets him up as the toughest *** because he was in this really painful moving. He did not tap out. And then after the match is finished, that's where that's where the double turn happens because there's a moment where everyone's cheering.

Brett, all Brett has to do is go back to. I'm actually quoting rest in BIOS here. All Brett's got to do is walk backstage. But he's just, like, so overcome with all this emotion and all this resentment that he literally starts kicking Austin while he's down. Shamrock grabs him off and he hits him he. Hits a suplex. And full on squares up Shamrock, Shamrock is baiting Brett into a fight, going if you're if you wanna fight this guy, fight me instead, and the crowd's. Into it. But then Brett walks away. And they all start booing him, cause he's literally kicked him while he was down. And then he's walked away from a confrontation and people are booing him all the way.

Up the ramp. Really. And this was very much by design, cause Brett, Brett, Brett. Later. Because the very next night on raw, he. Starts a villainous faction, an anti villainous faction called The Heart the The New Heart Foundation, with his brother Owen, his brother in laws, his brothers in law, Davey Boy Smith and Jim the Anvil Night Heart. And they are. They're heels in America, but because they're very anti American. But they are faces everywhere else. And so they're basically family values oriented. But they all think that America is awful. And and immoral so that and he became the uphill of the. Company. As a result of that of of that turn.

And then and then Austin wakes up, a referee comes over to to to help him up, and then he hits his finishing move on the ref. The stunner, and he's he's got he's got a dinged up knee. He does a terrific job selling and. Knee all throughout the match where where Brett stomps on it and as he's he refuses help goes back out the ramp by himself and as he's staggering back, he looks at the audience and they're all going. Ohh, Stan. Ohh. They literally they break out and Crouch and that's where the face turn happens. So they don't actually change anything about the characters. Austin is still a wild card but now the audience loves him because he refused to save.

Out to the most painful move and he didn't ask.

For anyone's help, right. And they got set up right at the end after the match had finished. And again, that idea of the, I guess, the storytelling of the of the wrestling that it's.

Yes. That's exactly, yeah. Brett. Brett Hyde in particular is one of the best storytellers in the. The ever fascinating as we look at one of his matches earlier against Roddy.

Piper, right? Yes.

Where they sort of tease the Roddy Piper, he'll turn cause he realises that he can't beat Brett fairly, so he results cheating and he almost does it. But then he hears the crowd booing him, and so he decides to lose race rather than but. Yeah, that's.

And this this going into the audience. That stage was one of the remarkable things about that. Match. I think you were mentioning before we were talking about this match that that Ben Sally just became. A little overused.

It became a real cliche, especially the rock the rock had used it a lot where basically it's at a certain point they leave the ring and it's hard for the people in attendance because I've, I've seen. I've been at a an event that had wrestling at it. It was a it was a, it was a Lady Beard concert where he goes and he wrestles through the crowd and you can't see anything. You can't see anything and it's just it's frustrating.

Right. Sorry, so get back to that. So that was Lady, did the heavy metal kind of dance in Japan and and you know.

Yeah. Idol dancer crossdresser.

Population around the world for for bigger was involved in a wrestling.

Yeah. Match. Yeah, he he started out. As a pro wrestler and a stuntman before he got into heavy metal.

And idol. Dancing so he always every time he goes, he has he knows something. He'll he'll fight a local wrestler and have a match with him.

What was the context that you saw a?

Match. It was out by Lady did. It was at Avcon in Adelaide? Yeah.

Right in Adelaide. Really. So, Adelaide, where would they get a wrestling? Oh, like like, there was proper wrestling.

Ring. It wasn't a ring, so it was. They have a match on on, on stage, on the other stage and. Then. They brought and.

Then they brawl through the.

Crowd. Right. Right. So so not all the moves would be there. No, but it would be performing aspects of wrestling. And there was a local Adelaide wrestler, yes.

I can't remember. That was, but I mean the the ropes are met, the ropes are a massive part of wrestling, like there are so many moves that they use the ropes for like they they like, they jump up and do elbow drops.

They'll push the other guy into it and it's called an Irish whip.

And I guess as you're talking about for the audience, they can see that as well, right? Even if you're kind of way back or if you're on the the kind of flat surface viewing you, you'd be able to look up and see it as you're saying, yeah, one of the the things, while it will energise parts of the audience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which are there? Yeah, they're way over the other side of the ring. You're gonna have obscured, if not no vision. And I guess maybe they'll have television screens.

If you'll start watching.

But so yeah, it was good for this cause. It it reenergized the crowd after they'd be completely dead quiet and they would go back to being dead quiet cause Sid versus taker is considered one of the worst main events ever in WrestleMania history.

But it was so bad in terms of the.

Slow plotting. No one really cared about the story. Well, if there even was a story like that was before undertakers WrestleMania streak had been established. But.

The article was talking about that many of the the the 15 top wrestlemanias are not the draw card match or not the number one match, but they're. Is that often the? Were you surprised at that that the the it's actually the kind of hidden gems that that become recognised? It's.

Yeah, it's pretty it's it's, it's it. It's reasonably rare for the main event to be the, I guess the match of the night because your main event it's it's done with your top talent who you want to protect. You don't want to get injured. So they would as a result do less risky manoeuvres. I mean, Austin's neck injury led to what is called the main event style where people, it's mostly punching.

The heavy and like safe, safe moves like suplexes.

Because yeah, the main event is setting up. Like it's the payoff for all the work you've done in a way, right? It's setting up your you're holding off the title the moment you'll you'll get all the the hopefully more merchandising money and so forth. And like, like, it'll be helping set up your nest egg because we what was the one we.

Saw was it raw?

When, when? When? Your we watch summer slam.

I was. Summer Slam right cause the the match I remember was the one with Logan Paul.

Yes, which was. Middle like it was still daytime. Ohh yeah. But it was a great match and then he does that that flip, that kind of Olympic diving level, double flip or whatever. Somersault flip.

Ohh the the. Asai moonsault. He goes on to LA Night where he jumps off the top rope out of the ring onto the concrete. It's so well done and he actually said that he never wants to.

Do that. Because he he practised it religiously because it it's it's such a.

I could believe it. It was a real amazing to watch. Yeah, but very much kind of athlete at the top of his game, kind of like Olympic game, yeah.

CW in the 90s was notorious for that cause. They they had, they had the cruiserweights who were a lot of them were Mexican wrestlers from Lucha Libre or they'd be Japanese style. Resellers doing these incredible aerial manoeuvres and they'd have them on at the beginning and then at the end you'd have, you know, guys like Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper and Randy Savage, who were. All the. Like still in good like they were, they were past their physical prime, shall we say? I mean, Piper in particular, that had had a hip replacement. So he was never as mobile as he was in the 80s.

But the the the. The thing about Austin versus hard as well is that it's not usually resume is where the the feud finishes, but that's the the few doesn't finish there. Because after that it still keeps going. Only one guy has gone from a bad guy to a good guy, the other one's gone from a good guy to a bad guy. And the original plan was for them to have a rematch at WrestleMania 14 for Austin to get the belt off Brett Hart in the main event.

But because Brett Hart had left the company, that never happened. So the the. Feud is terrific, but it doesn't have.

An ending? Yeah. Yeah, which? And imagine you're. You're that that as a as an organiser is what you want that lightning in a. Bottle moment. Match like this and then milk it and then when it doesn't. Yeah, eventually it must be very frustrating to the across the board and the.

Well. I'll try and summarise very quickly, cause basically what happens is at the end of November when Brett Hart was leaving, he was his last match was in Canada, he's Canadian and he had the title, time and McMahon. The promoted been trying to get the belt off him for a very long time or get him to drop it to Sean Michaels, who Brett Hart had extreme problems with in real life. And so essentially what happens is they agreed that there'd be a disqualification. He'd fall for the belt the following day on Roar. The the weekly TV show, but what happens is that and he'd been told by multiple people, do not let them get you in a submission hold because there might be a double cross. And what happens? Sean? Sean Michaels gets Brett Hart in this submission hold. McMahon yells at the time. Keep it to ring the bell. Even though Brett verbally doesn't submit, they ring the bell and they treat it as if he tapped out.

And that's they completely. It's called the Montreal Screwjob. And it's one of the most notorious moments in wrestling history where they literally. Screw the guy out of the out of the. Title. And he's furious afterwards. But it's just it, and it cheats you out of that final payoff between Austin and Hart Mania, 14.

That might set us up for a future discussion when we get you back to talk about the worst wrestling matches from the best wrestlers. So this is another big article.

That they talk about, even the very best wrestlers have their bad nights. Here's a list of the worst of the worst from the sports greatest superstar. So.

We can spend another six months talking about that.

That's right. This we sit here said this much like a storyline for wrestling.

And it can have a really damp scoop of a finish because people will. Stop caring about it, right?

Alright, so thanks for listening to me. It was great to be back after the month. So wonderful to have you join the show. Almost in this new season, I guess it's a new new season of media mothership. So listen in next. Week we'll dive into more pop culture media theories. Thank you Marcus for coming on.

Having me excellent and keep listening to Edge radio, we'll have Adrian. So you can't sit down happening at. Seven between no at six between now and 6:00. We'll just have some great tunes.

You are listening to.

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