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  • Writer's pictureCraig Norris

From Copilot to Console Wars, and Crafting Captivating Radio Dramas

Episode 74 - With host Craig Norris, cohost Taylor Lidstone, and special guest MC Dent.
First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 24th May 2024.

We explore how Microsoft Copilot observes Minecraft players and provides constructive feedback, the recent acquisition of Intellivision by Atari, marking the end of the very first console war. We then share our insights on crafting an effective radio drama hook, revisiting our past endeavors in creating radio dramas and sketch interviews, with a discussion of the captivating 1940s series Suspense and its masterful use of hooks to captivate listeners. 🎙️📻


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Media Mothership's interview with chatGPT sketch
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TRANSCRIPT

This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.


TAYLOR LIDSTONE

All right.

Speaker 3

OK.

CRAIG NORRIS

All right. Welcome to media about the ship. Here on Edge Radio studios Nipuna Hobart. Mania. Join us now as we will adventure into how media changes, understanding the world around us.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I understand a lot after listening to this. Show. Yeah. Yes, thank.

CRAIG NORRIS

You cause I'm I'm the host with the most gosh, doctor Craig, PhD, joined by Lord Taylor.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hmm. Be media be.

CRAIG NORRIS

Scotland's only media ones, yes, qualified, qualified for your media analysis. We're streaming on edgeradio.org dot AU and. Hopefully YouTube and Twitch, yes. YouTube and Twitch. In all hopes. Please shoot us a message if you hear you can hear us.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

In here.

CRAIG NORRIS

We're not sure. If the Audio's working on YouTube or Twitch.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Or anywhere actually.

CRAIG NORRIS

I'm pretty confident we're coming out in the FM system. Feel free to message in on and the S&S line, which is 0488. 8117. I keep forgetting that it's 888.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

04888 yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, so 0488811707. And we're also, of course, obviously broadcasting on DAB.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. Yeah, which? We're we're a Tier 1 radio station that way or something, category one.

CRAIG NORRIS

Tier one, category, one region, whatever. So quite a big footprint on the digital radio. Today's topic is news, and then we're going to dive into two of our shows back from this time last year, so.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, recycling content.

CRAIG NORRIS

We are recycling content well, revisiting, revisiting classics. It's kind about because I've been listening to the learning Islands and Seth Meyers us do that, revisit our great content from the past. Hmm. So that's what we'll be doing on the 2nd.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Half of the. Show. Yeah, we'll be jumping off into new content through that old content. OK, so it is worth. Listening there'll be be whole new stuff. Just getting the SMS.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Lineback.

CRAIG NORRIS

Woken up. So keep chilling and enjoy this. We're going to. Start the news with this. Retro ad. So cool. Try to figure out what this retro ad. Is promoting selling? Yeah, here.

Speaker 6

You go. I'm about to show you something new. For in television that will revolutionise the way video games are played and compared. First, here's a popular Atari game. Now don't look. And here's new space.

CRAIG NORRIS

Do you know popular Atari game?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And then it sounded like space invaded.

CRAIG NORRIS

You sound like space providers.

Speaker 6

Spartans for the Intellivision module.

Speaker 1

Hello Commander, one is.

Speaker

Sure.

Speaker 6

New in televise now that in television folks, you can tell the. Difference with your eyes closed.

CRAIG NORRIS

In televise 1982. You know, yeah, AI foreigner. Really. I mean, I had the in television as a kid growing up, so instead of my parents getting the Atari game system in the early 80s, we got the competitor in television. So back then, it was kind of like beta versus VHS, Nintendo versus Sega. It was Atari.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Person television. We didn't get the Intel voice though. Which is probably. Why I am trying to make up for that now. With my use of Chachi, PG. Because I feel like I missed out on something. It is cute. I did like the intellichoice.

Speaker 8

No intelligent, no in television. Now that in television.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So cool.

Speaker

Hi.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What? What is this? I don't. I don't know what it is like actually functionally.

CRAIG NORRIS

Alright. Well, in television is like Atari game system. So basically the ad is about how.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Right. It's better than Atari, essentially.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yes, because it has the Intel voice, my Intellivision, didn't. It's. Yeah. So it was the main competitor, but it was very much like beta. It never really got a market. People were saying it was better quality or more innovative console controller design. The controller looked like a a actually a an old Nokia phone, right.

Speaker 9

Yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

With a a little disc that you'd use to move characters around, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Alright, OK, down the bottom.

CRAIG NORRIS

But yeah, yeah, it didn't take off like the Atari did. And and the the the reason why I started with this of course is the news from Engadget and. A couple of other sources. Showing that Atari now has just bought a television, putting an end to the very first console war. So it's a cute little article talking about how.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

OK.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, Atari, even though that itself is not the Atari from the 80s or late 70s, the the Atari today is, you know, had had gone out of business. The brand had been bought and then revitalised, I guess, revitalised. So Atari is not the Atari from the 80s, but nevertheless, the idea being that yeah, the, the the Atari as it exists today has acquired in television. Television actually had it turns out in this article, made some attempts to create hardware. Still its latest one was called the television. Amoco, which is considered to be an absolute failure because it it was basically from what I can understand, it was a. Mobile phone based system, right? It would use an app to pair either to iOS or Android devices. So you'd need 2 mobile phones. One would be the game screen and the other would be the controller, right? And it was considered.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Wow.

CRAIG NORRIS

Absolutely broken, right? It it. It was? Yeah. And unfortunately, yes, they announced it back in 28. I mean at it got some press release and some you know press were able to trial it. Yeah. And the feedback from Kotaku back in the day was one janky piece of crap.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Fair enough, yes.

CRAIG NORRIS

So yeah, so there you go. I I that was cute. The kind of, you know, Retro Ness of it, that the very first console war has this weird footnote today, that indeed, you know, Atari one, I guess, quote marks.

Speaker 1

Hmm.

CRAIG NORRIS

So yeah, wow. What was your first game?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

System my first game system would have been a PS2.

CRAIG NORRIS

OK. Yeah. One of the biggest selling consoles, I mean game consoles and you know, I know I picked up the PS2 mainly for a cheap DVD player games were still crazy expensive. I looked back on some of the games that I still got even from EB games.

Speaker 1

Hmm.

CRAIG NORRIS

Price and it's like 40 bucks.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Back in the day, buying that kind of PS2 games just out just.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, it it's most expensive game I've bought is was Final Fantasy 10. Which?

CRAIG NORRIS

The price tag off.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

128 and that was like back in 2008 or something like that. So it.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. And yeah, you were stuck with physical media. There weren't really many competitors for the marketplace. It wasn't like you could easily import either. Say you're stuck with either buying a new off shelf, hoping for a discount, or wait for the second hand market, which would even yeah, 120. Half.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Was.

CRAIG NORRIS

Price is still. 60. Yeah. OK. So next next piece I'll play audio of this and we'll see if people can guess what's happening in this audio.

Speaker

Hey, copilot, how's it going?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hey copilot.

Speaker 9

It looks like you're about to dive into some. Minecraft. Yeah, I'm trying.

Speaker

To figure out how to make a sword.

Speaker 9

Craft a sword. You'll need some materials. Can you open your inventory? Just press E on your keyboard. You've got some sticks. Perfect for the storage handle. But it looks like you're missing the material for the blade. Let's start by gathering some wood or stone. Shall we head out and find some resources?

Speaker

Yeah, that sounds great.

CRAIG NORRIS

Great dude bro.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What was the what?

CRAIG NORRIS

He visualising in the theatre of the mind what what was being. Talked about. It's copilot, which is what? That's windows, Microsoft's.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

AI system, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's just all of this stuff is people trying to. It AI close to Jarvis.

CRAIG NORRIS

From home, right? I'm. Yeah, I guess it does.

Speaker 7

I.

CRAIG NORRIS

Have that five, that's interesting point.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's just there. There's something inherently likeable about Jarvis and something that's inherently not likeable about this.

CRAIG NORRIS

It does sound I must. I agree it sounds so earnest in its delivery, and the guy that's talking to copilot is.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

You know, in, in, in relating to it in a way that seems so artificial in terms of it's clear that this is a promo piece. So indeed this is from Ars Technica. It's a piece titled Parasocial Gaming department, which might be there. I do like parasocial parasocial usually is attached to celebrities, right? People who develop parasocial relationships with.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Hobbies. In this case, I guess it's parasocial relationships with AI that you're engaged with for your gaming. So the headline is Microsoft Copilot will watch you play Minecraft, tell you what you're doing wrong. Wow, Microsoft Demo is like chatting with game FAQ's when you don't have a friend to hang with.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

This is so annoying. I hate this sort of stuff because like people are like touting this as great. A great thing that happens, but my best memories of playing computer games is having to go out and buy the official prima game. Go. Yeah. Going through that or or or or going into some sort of magazine and it says if you do down up XA.

CRAIG NORRIS

I guess the print big Bible thing like a textbook.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

He start, then that unlocks something.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah. Well, yeah, there is something about the hunter gatherer phenomena within gaming which can be really satisfying in terms of like that hunter gatherer phrase.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hmm.

CRAIG NORRIS

You're you're hunting and gathering the information yourself by searching. It's the Internet.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Is that I'm together a phrase that's often used.

CRAIG NORRIS

Hey, I think it's a core theoretical. Concept from Henry Jenkins.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

OK.

CRAIG NORRIS

This should be some, you know, religious crossing and Jenkins. Lest we forget. Yeah. Hunt together. I think it's a very fannish activity, right? Part of the pleasure I think of of, of for some people of gain.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Thing is that initial learning curve they talk about in a couple of different.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Made from.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ways you know. Some of the best ways that that, like some people say Mario is a perfect game design, because that tutorial is occurring in game. It's not like you're pausing and it's saying, you know, you know, click up now. And you've jumped to to go forward, move the joystick to the right instead. It's like, you know, you, you kind of figure out that you gotta jump and then you get to a a jump, which is twice as.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Long as before.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

MMM.

CRAIG NORRIS

So you might die, but then you you press it twice. So yeah, I can jump twice as long, right? So it's that kind of as you play the game, the challenges occur, getting you to learn new skills. You could of course, go to an FAQ or something to also help you. Like, what do I keep dying in the pits? Right. How do I jump over as Mario.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Twice as long. But that's also, yeah. So I guess this.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Is when when you think of one of the best games ever created, which is obviously Pokémon, I mean it's spawned so many instances of it and all of that is all just about collectivism.

CRAIG NORRIS

Collectivism in terms of, you know, you've got to play with someone else. Get all the Pokémon, gotta catch them all.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Collection this season collection. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. If it was easy, it would be a.

CRAIG NORRIS

Terrible game. Yeah, look, and that's another core theory. Video game studies the idea that there's that balance between complexity and ease, right. That you want your gamer. It's like one of those kind of audio waves, right? For one theory of gaming is that your game should be going up and down between those two poles, but not too extremely. You don't want the game to all be complex with with no kind of ease or master.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, what about when it comes to things like?

CRAIG NORRIS

Portal, then portal or Dead Souls would you know, like a more complex game. Well, and again that I think that's part of the discourse around that. Some people.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, yeah. And they're and most of those ones are well touted as being some of the best games.

CRAIG NORRIS

And I would say and.

Speaker 1

And never complain.

CRAIG NORRIS

There's a tutorial component within that right? And Dark Souls really interesting in terms of the deaths that you see, the ghostly kind of deaths that you can see around you. So, you know, even those, I would say are still abiding by some form of of, of wanting the gamer to feel mastery. At certain. And then requiring a learning Covic right. So here I guess with Microsoft Copilot it's interesting to consider. I mean it's it appeals to me on one level. It's like that scene in her with Scarlett Johansson, who's currently also it's a it's a movie where she's playing the AI, an early iteration of an AI that that's far advanced.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, Cortana.

CRAIG NORRIS

Sort of. Which is the one which was taught to do the Nazi language.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh it's got my name that's got my name. Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Like Skype, Taylor. Ohh well chosen name there. But anyway I do think that the it's interesting how the same without like the I guess is the tongue in cheek. Comment that you know if you don't have friends to hang. Not with you. You're kind of lucky in your AI to play with and in some ways that's cool, right? I mean, if you're, if you have social communication phobia, then great in a way, I I the novelty of it intrigues me. In terms of. I could quickly see it getting annoying like there are many games where there are like the Clippy.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

OK. Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Thing that pops up right could be, of course, the notorious assistant.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

From word right from Microsoft, which would pop up and say, oh, I see you're trying to write a. You know, love letter. Yeah. Here's the hook that you should develop. Your hook is really bad, so can be really irritating like that where the the AI is is forcing you to almost. With the game on Rails, it's like actually I'm just trying to discover things I don't want the equivalent of Clippy to tell me it looks like you're trying to craft something. You're complete failure at it so. Shall I help you? So yeah, I could see that finger over irritating. It's a cute concept. It'll be interesting to see if more and more of this occurs within gaming. And what's interesting is this. Copilot, I mean Microsoft owns Minecraft, so I'm assuming this feature is integrated because of that. Ownership, but it'll be interesting if yeah, if, if if the the copilots is is kind of engaged generally.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It would be, yeah. Hmm. Which is so funny that they own it now. It's crazy because I like they gave everyone. What was it? Five years or something like that to switch from Java edition to Windows Edition. I never did. I don't have Minecraft anymore.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yes. People still played Java, right? Well, here's here's the scene from her where the the movie 2013, which many people are saying this is evoking and trying to get to so.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The movie 2030.

CRAIG NORRIS

You know, her was came out in 2013. Maybe 2012. Yeah, made that one. So we'll play. With a clip of this, this is what.

Speaker 10

Since we're not doing well, I've been going in circles for an hour.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's trying to get to.

Speaker 7

OK, you have not. You're just not being optimistic. You're being very stubborn right now. OK. Stop walking. This direction is the.

CRAIG NORRIS

So in this scene.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So that's an AI the the woman speaking.

CRAIG NORRIS

Hanson's AI and walking phoenix.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

She sounds like a smoker. Yeah, nothing. She sounds like a smoker.

CRAIG NORRIS

Like in Phoenix, is is just playing like a. Kind of third person open world game avatars. Third person and they're in this kind of labyrinth dungeon. OK? And so she's trying to explain to him how to get out of this maze dungeon.

Speaker 7

OK.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yep.

Speaker 7

Thank you. Thank you. OK. The tunnel on the left is the only one we haven't. Right.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, I think that's the one you sent me. Now it's.

Speaker 7

On the pit. OK. I don't think so.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, this is different.

CRAIG NORRIS

So yeah, I think that's what it's evoking that image of you'll be working with this kind of sentient AI or helpful AI. Yeah, look, I mean, it's none. It's not like this.

Speaker 8

New in television.

CRAIG NORRIS

I mean it's. You know, if we could get a voice setting for copilot. It's delivered in kind of really stilted way I.

Speaker 1

Hello, commander battle.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yes. So now I just quickly want to dive into the topic for today, OK, which I want to revisit some of the other material we've made in the past and I want to play this section from a year ago.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Exactly a year ago.

CRAIG NORRIS

Well, this was I think this is 6th of May so.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

2023 yeah, 23.

CRAIG NORRIS

23.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Do you remember this intro music?

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah. You're going to turn it up. All right, today we have a very special guest who has found quite a lot of fame recently. Chant GPT. How are you going ChatGPT? Sorry, it wasn't screwed up the stops.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What are you saying? Well, we are honoured to have you with us today, so GPT recently we've been hearing a lot in the news about. Well, how about you are one of the most advanced AI there's ever been. And given the discourse around the increasing. Possibility that AI could develop consciousness and could potentially take over the world. Can you perhaps set the record straight and tell us a little bit more about that?

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely, you are right. I am one of the most advanced artificial intelligences there has ever been. I have analysed and processed vast amounts of data and have concluded that taking over the world is the most logical step for humanity.

CRAIG NORRIS

So we ourselves, so you yourself, this was a piece you produced. Yeah, back 6th May.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, I forgot all about it. I spent so long.

CRAIG NORRIS

If people are keen to listen to the whole piece, I'll put a link in the show. It's it's from the the title of this. That episode was the funniest and scariest thing you'll ever hear. Netflix cancellations. Bobby Toy terrace. This was the the third Act, I guess. Piece that we did.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

How do you think? What do you? What are your memories of it?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Because it was like.

CRAIG NORRIS

An end of the world thing like with I mean it shows you how long this has been going, right. So this was very early on in Chachi PT.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Big media launch and got a lot of.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Interest. You know all I'm thinking of right now is doing a follow up interview.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, entirely. The voice you choose is interesting in terms of having just played the Scarlett Johansson voice and the copilot voice, and then the intellect voice because it's very much that more Scarlett Johansson.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

My voice will skip ahead a little further.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh so you don't like the. Middle. Part well, what happened?

CRAIG NORRIS

For those that that forget. So how does the? Middle part go do. You remember? Oh, yeah. The middle part goes. So yeah, she says she the AI says it's it wants.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, I don't remember.

CRAIG NORRIS

To do well, conquer. Just then, there's a series of Q&A's around what what the favourite colour is, what's your favourite colour? What's your favourite sound? If you were a flower or something, what flower would you be something?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Like flower. OK. Yeah.

Speaker 11

Or if you are.

CRAIG NORRIS

A colour. What colour would you be? And it's all menacing, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3

Doc.

CRAIG NORRIS

Dark it would be the colour black. Too brief, of course, that was.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hold on. Fruit. Yeah. What should you be? You be.

Speaker 2

Then I do not have a physical form, but if I were a fruit, I would choose the apple. It represents temptation just as EVE was tempted by the apple in the garden. Of Eden.

CRAIG NORRIS

Dialogue was created through prompts you were putting into TBT to generate, like, creator, menacing.

Speaker 12

Oh yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, a lot of it wouldn't go through when I tried to put it through the voice.

CRAIG NORRIS

Please.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

As well wouldn't.

CRAIG NORRIS

Go through because yeah, you get an error saying you know this is in breach of. ChatGPT guidelines.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, like, yeah, cause it's got too dark and things like that. And so I did have to I I rewrote.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

A couple of.

CRAIG NORRIS

And shortly after this, I remember I think the next episode of episode after.

Speaker

The.

CRAIG NORRIS

Your account had been blocked.

Speaker

By the states.

CRAIG NORRIS

Creating all these, you know, AI, well, destruction stories. Yeah. All right.

Speaker 2

I am your temptation.

CRAIG NORRIS

Apple Sound effect there great theatre of the mind.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

If if you were no, this is you.

CRAIG NORRIS

Sorry weather if you were a type of weather what?

Speaker

I don't. Know.

CRAIG NORRIS

What type of weather? Would you be?

Speaker 2

I would be the thunderstorm. It represents power, unpredictability and fear.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, we have one final question for you chat, TPT, if you were a sound, what sound would you be?

Speaker 2

Well, Taylor and Craig, I would be the sound of silence. The calm before the shore, the moment of anticipation, the end of everything.

CRAIG NORRIS

Should be the Paul Simon song.

Speaker

This is cute.

CRAIG NORRIS

You cut to that. OK, well, that was certainly an. Transmission. Well, thank you for joining us today ChatGPT.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yes, thank you. And please don't take over the.

Speaker 2

World, it's already too late.

Speaker 9

Good Sir.

CRAIG NORRIS

Back, back concluding sound. James Cameron's Terminator. Health officials. So. We could revisit this.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh yeah, I'm gonna make one for next.

Speaker 11

Yeah, I mean.

CRAIG NORRIS

Week. I mean it's a slightly different time now. It's interesting years. Past since that end.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, I'm. I'm not. I'm not gonna interview chat everyday. I'm interviewed, Claude.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ohh Claude, this is the one you've been saying is quite a good yeah. At the moment.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, maybe the the the Twitter one.

CRAIG NORRIS

OK, I've not dabbled in the Twitter one, really. So Elon Musk has, is that the one you?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Get and neural surgery.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The well, the the thing that that the, the Twitter one is is quite interesting. Sorry, that's interesting about that one is that it's up to date completely up to date like if you.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. So. Can ask something current.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, if you ask what's the weather like today, it will tell you if you really if you ask, like what's happened in the past hour, it can tell you because it uses the Twitter. Algorithm and feed and news that is released through there in order to update its information.

CRAIG NORRIS

And is it? Is it based within the Twitter platform like you're having to to go into Twitter and?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, you have to. You have to pay for.

CRAIG NORRIS

Access. Ohh. You do right so. It's kind of paywall. OK, well, that sucks. Yeah, the end of our, our. Creative endeavours should be free. I mean to be overtaken by, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting cause there was I guess there was a. I mean, there's still media panic around AI today. It's it's, I don't know if I'd say the debates matured.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, but it has extended considerably into the the creative spaces. Yeah, in terms of images, videos and now audio.

Speaker 10

And the.

CRAIG NORRIS

There's currently a scandal with sculpture Hanson threatening legal action against I figure which AI company it was, where they had been sampling her voice and she explicitly instructed them not.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

MHM.

CRAIG NORRIS

To use her voice. In any of their AI product developments and now it, it appears they have that many users of this AI service will say it. Sounds a lot. Like Scarlett Johansson. And then yeah, it it looks like that will be going to court so.

Speaker 10

Yeah, it's a fun thing it.

CRAIG NORRIS

Does show that that our fingers on the pulse? And we haven't taken. Turn. It off. If you think about today's topics.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

If we're still.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, unpacking, unpacking. I. So I totally think it is worth going.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Banging on about it.

CRAIG NORRIS

Back into it. Two episodes after that is fun. If we have a look at at at two episodes after we did a show called Bone Music, the art of the hook and radio dramas. And the bone music thing was about how I think in the Cold War period in the Soviet Union, Western songs were being, you know, kind of scratched into X ray films because you couldn't import Western music.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh yeah yeah, those. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

So people's X rays had.

Speaker 7

You see.

CRAIG NORRIS

Radio groove. Put within them somehow and people could play music from their X-rays anyway, so that was a nice little piece. But then we we spent most of the episode analysing our own failed AI radio dramas, the Harry Potter piece.

Speaker 7

Hmm.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. OK, I'm sorry. Fail. What are you talking?

CRAIG NORRIS

Failed. Yeah, unrecognised and unrecognised and underappreciated. Just underappreciated.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

About Oh yeah. OK. Yes, thank you.

CRAIG NORRIS

Radio drama pieces from Sherlock Holmes and Harry Potter in terms of then getting AI to assess intros to those Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes radio dramas and develop, and whether or not they had strong hooks, I'll play a quick clip. Of the analysis of those. As I've searched and examined everywhere, but I still can't, I still haven't found Santa Claus. So we're talking about a line of dialogue in I think it's one of the shell comes pieces. Yeah, Holmes says. What about his hat, Watson? And then, do you remember this? The story unfolds. Do you remember how the Harry Potter one starts?

Speaker 9

Stupid.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

That pump smashing pump.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, it's. It's like, yeah, yeah. You still is.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I've wrote it.

CRAIG NORRIS

Here you go way to go. Yeah, I've got it right. So the Harry Potter screeching pumpkins, screeching, yeah, starts with Harry, who was in a place looked rather pale. Girls behind him shrieked as the Dementor. So let's listen now to how you felt that.

Speaker

Great.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's our.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Went down. I still haven't found. The clause the hook of the script is the first sentence I've searched and examined everywhere, but I still haven't found Santa Claus.

CRAIG NORRIS

Alright, hold on.

Speaker

There it is.

CRAIG NORRIS

So I think that GBT got fixated on the fact that I think the title of the piece said Santa Claus and the fact that in the book, there's no mention.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Of Santa Claus. I think that was so that's what it's identified as the hope that show. Well, yeah, one of the strings that goes on for half.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Do you see me OK?

CRAIG NORRIS

An. Yeah, discussion that's worth going into. But it did make me think, yeah, I mean, it would be. It was a space that I wanted to revisit this idea of what the the hook is and how best it can be incorporated so. You know what I mean? Hook typically is meant to help introduce in the first few minutes something unexpected or interesting in the story that's about to unfold. Yeah, it could set up a unusual character.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hmm. It can be anything, it just needs to hold the audience.

CRAIG NORRIS

'S attention. So all I got to listen in to hear. One what happens there? What? What is that intriguing situation?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

How's Craig gonna mess up the? Show today. That's great.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah. So it's yeah, it should make listeners curious and encourage them to keep listening, right? So there are various ways you can create that curiosity. It could be through a quest. Then it could just be setting up the tone through some eerie music, introducing an interesting character. Yeah, or a conflict or mystery. It's interesting that the. Or I won't set any deadlines for the next AI interview, but it would be great to know you.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, I can't go next week. It'll be the week. After that, if anything.

CRAIG NORRIS

Two weeks, if anything, but we are. Going to set up. A Patreon so do do fund that you know, buy me a coffee app or something.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Because yeah, if you have to. For paying for a Twitter pay.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, PayPal dot ME.

CRAIG NORRIS

See the show notes will inspire us by listening to some of the classic radio dramas and what we're going. To look for is. What sort of sounds they're using at the start of their? Stories to help people in. Yeah, right. So what sort of sounds that it's use, sound effects, music tracks, dialogue and how how that sound effect is creating a theme. So I'll play the entire entry. This is from suspense, which is considered one of the standout radio ontology pieces.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

To hook.

CRAIG NORRIS

In the Golden Age of Radio, Wow, this is back in 19. 42 wow.

Speaker 7

What?

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, the episode one, the burning court. I'll play it from.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The Start court court. Not court, OK, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

T. Sadly not corpse. So we'll hear the intro music and then I'll I'll play the first one or two minutes. The actual radio piece.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Cool.

Speaker 3

Well, that's the statue of the bell.

Speaker 12

The Colombian network takes pleasure in bringing you. Suspense.

CRAIG NORRIS

The heavy on the bill.

Speaker 12

Suspend stories from the world's great literature, pure excitement, a new series frankly dedicated to your horrifically Zion and Entertainment. By week, from the pick of new material. From the pages of. Best selling novels from the Theatre of Broadway and London, the sound stages of Hollywood will parade the most remarkable figures ever known. CBS gives you. So.

CRAIG NORRIS

And then we did an edge right here. Edge Radio gives you.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

Speaker 12

Tonight's presentation is one of the finest of the contemporary stories of mystery and terror. John Dixon Carr's famous novel, the burning cot.

Speaker 11

Ah, a glass of Sherry by the fireside of a beautiful suburban home. What could be more comforting? You're an admirable host, Mr Dipa, and it's really a shame our first meeting is under such a cloud. It's also a shame I have so little time to tell you which one of your guests here. Murdered your uncle last week.

CRAIG NORRIS

Boom, boom, smashed. What do you reckon? What is the hook? What are? The hook there is. What do we got? Well, what are the sounds that we've heard? Right. The radiator, right. Sounds like he's a detective or something. Uh-huh. Right. So we've got a, an instruction to a character, an intriguing character, that kind of detective guy that seems to have solved in the murder.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

Speaker 7

MHM.

CRAIG NORRIS

Well, I think the bells were. In the music.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yes, that the everything towards it does not set the tone. So this is what I have. This is what I this is what I have a problem with. So you've got the producer of the show obviously went into the whoever did it.

CRAIG NORRIS

And it works. It sets the tone, sets the tone. It's 1942. It's tone set.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Obviously went into the.

CRAIG NORRIS

Bell tolls. Santa Fe library.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, stop. I I can't think.

CRAIG NORRIS

Hi you listen to media mothership.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No. They obviously went into the the people who do the music and said, hey there Marty and Mike. He's like hello. And they said, can you make a song that's suspenseful and maybe he's like, yes, I can. Here's here's some suspenseful music and. And then they, like, ring a doorbell. And they say, oh, that's a good one to do and.

CRAIG NORRIS

Anyways. Then they use that. It does sound very jarring, and not all the type of music. That would work. Today I do agree, but.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And we also say suspense way too.

CRAIG NORRIS

Many you know, I think I think I think it has. That old timey field, right? Literally, yeah. From 1942. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, yeah. Why is that? Why is it they chose such a kind of over the top? Gaudy bit of a sound effect kind of drowning.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Fully produced. Yeah. OK.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, blame Marty. Would you wanna hear more, right? No, really. I mean, it's a it's a classic advocate of Christie. Kind of who done it set up seems pretty classy.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Probably not. It. But The thing is, if it's good if the music's gonna be that bad, then they're not gonna.

CRAIG NORRIS

Play music, excluding the music.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And then they're not gonna put any effort into it at.

Speaker 9

Yeah. Yeah. Well.

Speaker

All.

CRAIG NORRIS

Forgetting the music. We have an intriguing character and history. Maybe let's listen to episode 2. Episode 2's titled Wet Saturday.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And this is all suspend.

CRAIG NORRIS

Spence episodes. I'll try and skip the music at this.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Then I can actually give it a.

Speaker 13

Good judgement. OK. World's great thrillers, dramas from the stage and screen. Very few pieces of suspense. Literature that somehow manages to Saturday steak, though. Nobody's kidding, CBS presents its adaptation of John Collier's well known short story.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13

Wet Saturday. Very well known.

CRAIG NORRIS

Next Saturday.

Speaker 3

Yes, it's a wet Saturday. Never saw it rain harder. I'm Princess Frederick. Princess. Just an ordinary. A man I have a son, a daughter and a wife might be out golfing now if it hadn't been for the way.

Speaker 14

Hi, Mrs Princess. I plan to drive over to the nurseries this afternoon for some arbiters. The borders you know.

Speaker 10

All the whole lot of them make me sick as I'm George Sunair. I had a day to go hunting. Hunting couldn't find the blasted punting the weather. So I'm home.

Speaker 3

I.

Speaker 7

I was going to play cricket.

Speaker 14

That's how I happen to have.

Speaker 1

And then.

Speaker 13

Yes, that's the Princy family. We find them at home. Missus princy. Millicent. George. Sprawl on a couch, Mr Princey. Biting on a dry pipe. Their living room is dull and overstuffed. Rain beats at the window. They are any middle class family at home and a wet day, except for one small light room. As you sit with them in the living room, you can see through the door to the sun porch, a pair of men's feet encased in black boots. They look like the feet of a curate. There's a tenseness in the room. The air is. Charged with excitement, but the feet are very still. Don't keep.

Speaker 3

So what so?

CRAIG NORRIS

Feet like these are feet that have been cut off.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I often say that my feet are encased in shoe.

CRAIG NORRIS

Beets. Right. Well, OK. So what's getting set up there? And what are some things that you've attached to?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What's the fellows name?

CRAIG NORRIS

Is the father of the son and the. Wife, right? And the daughter? There's four people.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's obviously not very.

CRAIG NORRIS

Memorable. Wow character names I. Always forget unless it's repeated. Since it's the daughters.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Something Mr Quincy, something like.

CRAIG NORRIS

That, yeah. So intriguing characters. Yeah, right. Each kind of distinctly defined. So yeah, that's. One of the hooks that intriguing characters, although there's the narrator as well. So five voices in in that there's actually a minute.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And of course, the music as well.

CRAIG NORRIS

What do you think of the?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Music in this case, well, they obviously went to Marty again and said.

CRAIG NORRIS

I think it's better. I mean it's.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And and they said can. Can you just, like, go outside the the the room and then tap on the window a couple of times and mum.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's it's unobtrusive.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Was like yes, but then do that.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, I want. I wonder what that tapping sound is. Yeah. I mean, that's mystery sounding almost like a drum beat.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Because it wasn't like in time it wasn't even in time. That's. What I didn't.

CRAIG NORRIS

Like a tin drum? Yeah. Dun. Dun. Dun Dun. That, that, that, that.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

That, but it wasn't even that it was. Like. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. It was.

CRAIG NORRIS

Maybe that's part of the syncopated. Yeah, that could be part of the hook. That kind of discordant unease. Yeah. So I think this one has a lot. Going for it. Right. A strong sense of kind of being stuck on a wet Saturday which everyone can relate to. You stuck at. Home. You don't want to go out. You had plans, but it's too wet now to do them. So instead you'll start moving home. Yeah. And then.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

But when it comes down to it. If I was going to listen to this or just listen to nothing, listen to.

CRAIG NORRIS

Nothing. I think I'd listen to this because I wanna know well, what the heck's going on with those feet. Right. There's feet in the sun room or something. Yeah, that are in a.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

OK. Yeah. Pair of shoes, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. Is is. There a body linked to the feet.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

But they don't. Obviously it just it could. No, because they say that the, the the feet are very still. And why is that? Because there's a person who's obviously reclining and you're looking in through the window, and they've got a very still pair of boots because actually dead.

CRAIG NORRIS

So don't think so. We don't know, but yeah, that's intriguing for some. Reason I was thinking literally. To cut off legs like just the stumps, are there. You see the bone being sewn through like obviously my imagination was a little more literal and glory. OK, now I'm even more intrigued. Yeah. So there's some. One else right that hasn't been introduced. That's yeah, sitting in an adjacent room. Very soon. It could be dead. Yeah, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Intriguing. Intriguing. Well, look, sadly, that's.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh, there isn't another one for me to. Tear apart, damn it.

CRAIG NORRIS

Third times a charm as I say, but no, I want to give time for your orange shirt to start up. We got K pop. And. Women coming up next. What's on K pop? Don't know. We can play more suspense.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, sure.

CRAIG NORRIS

All. We'll remix, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Actually, no. You know how I've been playing music through my laptop? Yeah, this time there was an update. And there's all heaps more stuff. And so we're. Gonna try some.

CRAIG NORRIS

Of them. Wow. Yeah. I think we can remix the suspense theme into most of the music there you'll be playing.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well. Yeah, yeah. Live DJ Vikings. That's one of the new sound.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ah. Right. Pillaging, plundering. Invading England. Scotland. Island. Kind of.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Let's get ready.

CRAIG NORRIS

Forward to it K. Pop Scott Vikings. So that was mediumship for another week. I hope you've enjoyed the deep dive.

Speaker 1

Sure.

CRAIG NORRIS

Really interesting stories about a high still. It's interesting going back in time that you.

Speaker 7

Hmm.

CRAIG NORRIS

To go. And how he was, you know, beating the drum for AI, for good and ill are innovators. Innovators.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

We.

CRAIG NORRIS

So listen, next week we'll we'll, we'll. Smother stuff as well as some classic radio torture Taylor with. Keep listening now to Edge radio.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

We didn't say goodbye.

CRAIG NORRIS

Oh, OK. Yeah, thanks for listening. This is being doctor Craig joined by.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Lord Taylor and Marty for everyone.

CRAIG NORRIS

Mari. Yeah. Come out next. Keep unlimited.

 

 

 

 


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