Episode 63 - With host Craig Norris, co-host Taylor Lidstone and special guest Marcus Johnson
First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 19 January 2024.
In this week's episode, we delve deep into the world of gaming and sci-fi. First, we explore the fascinating story of a Modder who transformed Mortal Kombat 1 into a gory and twisted Dreamworks vs Pixar bloodbath. Then, we dive into the controversial world of Doctor Who as we continue our discussion of Den of Geek's top 50 controversies. Join us as we uncover the secrets of Doctor Who's rich history and explore the most scandalous moments in this iconic sci-fi series. So, gear up for a thrilling ride and tune in to our latest podcast episode now!
Links
Modder Turns Mortal Kombat 1 Into Gruesome Adults Only Dreamworks vs Pixar Bloodbath - IGN https://www.ign.com/articles/modder-turns-mortal-kombat-1-into-gruesome-adults-only-dreamworks-vs-pixar-blood-bath
Doctor Who's top 50 controversies | Den of Geek https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-whos-top-50-controversies/
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Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.
CRAIG
Alright. And yes, you're listening now to medium. Very good. Faded. Correct down. Yeah. Membership here on Edge Radio 99.3 FM. And we are shortly going to be streaming. Press the button. Yeah. So we we will be streaming on YouTube. Twitch. Twitch. Yep. And. Uh, my headphones are way too loud.
TAYLOR
And your your headphones. OK, that's fine.
CRAIG
Yeah, great. OK, great. I'm is this, what is this show about what is media my show about? It's about everything in and around the world of media. How it shapes the world around us. And we're gonna look at some really interesting articles and news stories. I'm joined by two people today. My co-host Lord Taylor and from last two. Shows Marcus Johnson.
MARCUS
How's it going?
CRAIG
Very good. Great to have. You on good to be here. Excellent likewise. I'm really glad to hear we're on the. Edge of the seat. And yes, I think we're stream. Yep. Yep. Yep. I think we're streaming now. So if you do have any comments to make, feel free to comment in the in the in the chat.
MARCUS
It's not. It's not one of those like boxing balls at. The gym where you. Trying to say it's it's a microphone you're speaking to it.
CRAIG
Whoops, violence in the studio. It's all happening here. Well, so or so you can chat to us on the stream. And I did get criticised last weekend by someone that has watched the stream.
MARCUS
Not thump it, yeah.
CRAIG
Saying they they've been commenting, they've been putting comments and no one ever reacted to them. Alright, so I will try to keep an eye on the the comments stream. You can also SMS US on 0488811707 if you have any comments there as well. So on today's show, we're going to be exploring Doctor Who again, but to start off, there's a a little bit of media news that I want to talk about. Which I will start with a clip for ambitiously, so this is basically just gonna set the mood for this show. So you gotta kind of guess what this is from. It's from a video game. I'll give you some clues. It's from a video game and. This is the audio that you hear in the video game.
TAYLOR
Ohh dear.
CRAIG
So basically it's Twitter. It's an article from IGN.
Speaker 1
I think.
CRAIG
The title of the article once it loads up is motto turns Mortal Kombat 1 into gruesome adults, only DreamWorks versus Pixar bloodbath.
MARCUS
What are you beating up? It is Sully, isn't it?
CRAIG
Yeah. So this is Woody beating up Sully.
MARCUS
From Monsters, Inc, Monsters Inc. And what they've done very cleverly is that. They put woody over Kung Lao so he can still use.
TAYLOR
The hat. Yeah, that's true.
CRAIG
Right, that's what it is. Yeah, so. What's fascinating about this mob is that it's using the Model Engine 1 engine or game, and they've modelled over the top of it, so they've kept the same. Tech moves, but they've.
TAYLOR
Changed. They just changed the skin. Yeah.
CRAIG
Yeah, it works so well. So do you guys have you guys played? Mortal Kombat 1? Is that within your game?
MARCUS
It is the. It is the only Mortal Kombat mainline entry that I haven't played.
TAYLOR
I don't know. I've played one of them. I. Don't know which.
CRAIG
One well, let's talk about what is Mortal Kombat firstly, what is? Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat.
MARCUS
Is a fighting game series originally debuted. I believe in 1993, published by Midway Games, which has since been acquired by Warner. And it is largely about. Out interdimensional warfare between 3 realms Earth realm where we live our world, which is sort of like a generic dark fantasy land and then there is the nether realm which is just hell. Also there's another one called Adenia and there are conquerors in our world. And sort of demon Lords in the nether realm who each want to. Take over earth realm. And there are a whole host of characters who are on both sides of this conflict, and a whole bunch of independent characters who just want have beef with other characters. But with the two most famous characters from Mortal Kombat and Sub Zero and Scorpion the the the Pallet swapped ninjas. Although Subzero is not a ninja because he is from. Northern China or Mongolia, depending on the continuity you go from Scorpion is is Japanese and. Basically they they sub zero or rather the younger sub-zero is one of the main heroes who often joins in when the when the when the Lightning God Raiden, some of them to go on fighting from into the dimensional complex and scorpion is the arch enemy of sub Zero because he's a reverend who was originally killed by the 1st sub. Zero, and he's always not.
CRAIG
Far behind and what's really interesting about this is last week. We talked about how the Tekken series had a trailer. That launched onto you. Tube delivered by Brian Cox, the famous actor from succession and adaptation, and you're pretty old Wolverine with Wolverine movie.
MARCUS
Yeah, he's the main villain in X-Men two, and he's also the the first ever actor to play Hannibal Lecter on screen in Manhunter.
CRAIG
Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't know it was him from Manhunter. I've seen that way back in the day and he's delivering this fantastic performance as basically a encapsulation of the history of Tekken up to the point that the new game is going to get released. And so the YouTube the article that was talking about it was kind of praising the fact that here we have this, you know, theatrically trained performer, delivering lines like, you know, the demon spawn of Kazuki and became the Demon Angel. And with some of the lines that that you found memorable.
MARCUS
Something something to the effect of. Now you'll understand why this family is always trying to throw one another off cliffs.
CRAIG
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Because I had no idea that was Cliff throwing played the Tekken. No, see, I'd purely seen these games as ones that I'll have at home when. You know, my son has friends over and I just need to to get them to be occupied. So I'll say, let's why don't you guys just play, you know, Mortal Kombat versus adding a DC universe and they'll sit down. Play it. I've I've never really engaged with them as story telling objects. So it's fascinating to hear. Yeah. Brian Cox's delivery of the importance of storytelling. And of course, mortal combat exists within its own stories, so we have a very well known franchise, and this mod is set up by a. Guy called toasted shoe. And what's really interesting is he's replaced existing Mortal Kombat 1 characters with various ones from Disney. Pixar and Dream Works, as well as Rick and Morty and Family Guy, among others. What's fun about the article? If you go into it on IGN, is that it's all picked up from Twitter feeds. Including one from this guy called Sean Kelly, who, it turns out, does a perfect performance of of Rick Sanchez and and Morty from. Rick and Morty. I was there. I had to commit to the completion of that sentence. So we'll we'll listen to a quick snippet from there as well. What's a little strength thing is it's from a YouTube let's player Guy. So it does have his commentary.
MARCUS
I know what show they were from.
CRAIG
As we're listening to it, but what's really interesting is they got him to voice the characters that in the mod.
Speaker 5
OK.
CRAIG
So here we go.
Speaker 1
Lois, look, it's the guy from. You're also in. Yeah, it's me, Rick from Fortnite. Get over here. Yeah. Get over. Yeah, go, go, go. Gadget. Real, please.
Speaker 6
You know what, I could genuinely say this happening in a future episode.
CRAIG
So we have, we have Rick and Morty, then we have Morty there.
Speaker 6
First up, we have Woody versus Chris and of course for the cameos we have Mr B6 at lowest.
Speaker 5
Hi, Mr Meeks. Look at me. And you're gonna die. Alright, finish the chapter time to reward myself with a slow relaxing. You gross. I don't need to know when you strangle your snake, get it make shakes. He just bites the bomb. Him there can only be one true body. I got some down there there now what is D? Have you heard of a thing called over sharing? Hey, stop that.
CRAIG
So well, what I find quite fun about it. Is how it's. It takes the characters and storyline from those franchise spaces and then mashes up, because I imagine some of. That dialogue is. New if they've got someone to voice the characters, this would kind of be scripted for for the mod as well, so it's that kind of clever. You know, juxtaposition, I guess, of of established franchise characters. It's unusual, actually. The one that might work is the. The long feud between South Park and Family Guy, yes. Absolutely. Putting those characters in there might be treating and then you've got, yeah. Even stuff like characters from. What's what's your reaction? I mean, it's really adult, right? It really. I mean, what was the release from auto combo and 9:15 plus. So could they get released in Australia at that time? Well, so originally.
MARCUS
Ohh they've.
Speaker 6
Been they've.
MARCUS
There was all this arming and caring about. Introducing an R rating and then eventually they said, OK, well, we've had all this backlash because there's really, you know, one of the one of the most famous and popular fighting game series on the planet. And they were gonna, they were gonna refuse to let it come into Australia and they went, OK, we we have to do this. So they were like, OK. So they brought in the R rating and when they I think they only released the complete version of Mortal Kombat 9, but I could be wrong, so please do not quote me on that, but that was the game that. Got it. Over the hump because I remember one game that I really wanted to get back in the mid 2000s was the reservoir. Dogs video game, yes. But because they got an R rating, it never got released in Australia. It's illegal to own it in. Australia, but after the already got brought in, they never went back and reclassified it, but apparently it's not very good, so I don't really have anything apparently.
CRAIG
Well, for the bragging rights, the cultural capital. So this game does take these kind of, you know, teen 20, something popular characters puts them in a very adult context where you are. Being from the Mortal Kombat. Graphics kind of these amazing internal shots as their spines are cracked or their their. Rib cage is broken.
TAYLOR
And I did not expect the little kid from up to come along with the gum.
CRAIG
So it is, it's it's. Yeah, I guess fun juxtapositions, because I guess it's a kind of very meta juxtaposition in terms of taking franchises, which are very comic book based or cartoon based. The Disney ones in particular aimed at a kind of family audience and then putting them, dropping them. Going to I I don't know is is this regarded as one of the most violent versions of fighting games? The Mortal Kombat 1 engine?
MARCUS
Ohh, it would definitely be up there. I mean there are very few people who would dispute the Mortal Kombat as the most violent fighting game franchise out there. There were attempts to outdo the original series back in the 1990s. But I think that the the recent releases have definitely put them all to. I mean, there's, there's there's discussion about how they the the developers made the artists actually look at and study actual pictures of dead bodies to understand what they would look like on the inside.
CRAIG
Right.
Speaker
Well, could that.
MARCUS
That could be the Last of Us two I can't remember, but it was definitely one of those franchises. Yeah, it's the.
CRAIG
While while we're talking on video games, let's catch up with what we've been doing over the holiday break. Taylor, you've been playing a couple. Of games? Yep.
TAYLOR
I've been playing Skyrim.
Speaker 1
Scott yeah.
TAYLOR
As usual, I've been playing.
CRAIG
Skyrim, of course. Is a game you you've beaten?
TAYLOR
Many times no, never, never beaten. You've beaten it, never beaten it.
CRAIG
Can you? You can beat it.
TAYLOR
You can be like you can get to like where they have the names coming down credit.
CRAIG
So what? What do you what what? Are your goals and objectives in Skyrim? It's like a a role playing game, yeah?
MARCUS
In your game just role playing.
TAYLOR
Is what it is going around picking mushrooms and selling them?
CRAIG
Well, you know, I'll. Go in my daughters playing Roblox and she's like playing some gas station owner Roblox game. It's like this is my gas station. Dad, I'm bringing X number of dollars and it's like. Got this I and I just said yeah, put that. In your CV. On your gas station owner. And then in smaller print Roblox.
TAYLOR
But apart from that, I've been playing a couple of emulated games on my phone. Sick. Yeah, gameboy advance? Gameboy advance SP. That's.
CRAIG
When we're talking classic. What one is? Pokémon Red on there is that one of them.
TAYLOR
There there might be, but I'm. I'm currently playing Ruby at the moment, which is the first Pokémon game.
Speaker 5
For Ruby.
TAYLOR
I ever played Pokémon Ruby.
Speaker
OK.
CRAIG
Ohh does that is that notorious for having? Particular putting one in it.
MARCUS
It was notorious at the time for not having particular Pokémon in there because I'm pretty sure it's Ruby, Ruby, and Sapphire because that was. That was when the roster bloated out to what 300 and 5400 and.
TAYLOR
That's true, yeah.
CRAIG
Didn't have Pikachu.
TAYLOR
50 Pokémon they didn't want to.
MARCUS
Include all of them, game free based. Yeah, we, we we do not have the resources to include this many Pokémon. So they just left a whole bunch out, but.
CRAIG
Right. And it's a tough Sophie's choice. Right. Which ones are you going? To curl, what are the fan favourites? So what were they be controversies that were left on the cutting room?
MARCUS
Floor. I don't know, I.
Speaker 5
Didn't take them. Forums mobilises your fandom.
MARCUS
No, I read this in a I read this in a gaming magazine around 2003 when it came out, but I I I was well and truly out of my Pokémon. Met him at that point and I I never really got back into Pokémon. I mean, I. Played the remake of Pearl a couple of years ago and had a huge amount of fun with that, but that's the only other one that I've actually played start to finish since silver back in. The year 2000 and how are you finding Ruby?
CRAIG
There now are you. Finding at a gap in absence.
TAYLOR
Yeah, big, big nostalgia. It's my favourite one, especially after just finishing off a couple of the what's the newest ones called Scarlet and Violet. Rubbish. Ohh, absolute rubbish.
CRAIG
So you can chat to us. With your opinion on that. Oh, on SMS rubbish. Why?
Speaker
Why were they rubbish?
TAYLOR
Because they've they've gone to this sort of like, all they're really trying to do is get away from turn based combat and turn based. Anything turn based is out, which I I don't. That's the way I prefer to play games turn based. So I've been playing a lot of Fire Emblem on on my.
CRAIG
Phone as well. Now one of the big selling points of Pokémon was the idea that you need to like you can't complete everything unless you battle people. Yeah. Do you do that? Do you find people that have? That version.
TAYLOR
This there's no way to do it in an emulator.
CRAIG
Right, so how does it like? That that feature just doesn't exist. Yeah, no. So you can never catch them.
TAYLOR
All can never catch them.
CRAIG
All I really want to have the the the the thing queued up. But we don't. Right. Let's put him on. Red Ruby. Oh man, I just bought out the images. For Red right Ruby it. Is all right. What else have you been playing?
TAYLOR
Baldur's Gate 3.
Speaker 5
Say it. Yes, photoscape.
CRAIG
Three, we've been hyping it. On this show. Pre Christmas and. I like to think that that had. A lot to do with it because we. Were focusing on one of those controversial features, which was. Speed running it. With particular fetish interests, if I could say.
TAYLOR
OK.
CRAIG
Sex as a fetish, I don't know, is it? Edge with sticker edges. Just trying to make it as uncomfortable as. I can so. Have you? Been firstly one is boulders gate.
TAYLOR
It's basically dungeons and Dragons. For people that don't have friends.
CRAIG
Ohh right, cause you need to commute basically all of your free.
TAYLOR
Time to no, as in like it's literally one of the campaigns.
CRAIG
Ohh really you your friends?
TAYLOR
I don't know which. One it is, but it's a.
CRAIG
It's like, do you have friends? Yes. Well, you must unfriend them.
TAYLOR
No, it it gives you computer controlled characters and other people exactly.
CRAIG
Vampire spawns. Yeah, yeah. Have you? Vampire spawned, are you?
TAYLOR
Well, that's one of like, the characters that you have to get, well, technically don't have to have any characters. You can just as soon as you meet someone who could be a character, you can just like shoot them in the head if you want to. It's like just like Fire Emblem. Exactly.
CRAIG
And Fire Emblem, of course, is is. A Pokémon game. So I'm asking it to open up the conversation. I of course know what my problem is, because I'm gonna bring it up on my computer.
TAYLOR
It's a tactical team based.
MARCUS
Game. Yeah, I I did describe to someone recently and I was like it's it's basically an RPG, but without the adventuring. Yeah, it's nothing but combat.
CRAIG
Didn't it come out like that fire and has gone through? A number of versions.
MARCUS
Yes, many comes in the.
CRAIG
Audience. Yep, Yep.
TAYLOR
Because they were.
CRAIG
And it's Japanese JRPG J. Ohh.
TAYLOR
TRG tactical role playing game. Yeah, yeah.
MARCUS
Yeah, but it's it's very it definitely is the JRPG aesthetic. Definitely because Taylor, you mentioned you were playing this the fire on the Second Stones in. Your own farm. Yes, yes. How are you finding that?
TAYLOR
It's my favourite one because the first one.
CRAIG
Ohh, which game is this?
TAYLOR
That I. Did sacred.
CRAIG
Stone sacred stone.
TAYLOR
Which is the Fire Emblem game?
CRAIG
When did that get?
TAYLOR
Released 2002, maybe 2001.
CRAIG
What was the performance for?
MARCUS
Game Boy Advance. Yeah. Do you? Do you have a? Physical copy of it.
TAYLOR
Yes, I do you.
CRAIG
Are rich really how much is?
MARCUS
That. Ohh that would be worth. Do you have the box?
Speaker 6
For it. Yeah. Ohh.
MARCUS
No, that's if you've got the box that's like 8-9 hundred dollars easily. Wow. Yeah. The Fire Emblem games from the early mid 2000s. Have shot up and Bruce astronomically so the only final game that I've played start to finish is Path of Radiance the fire. Emblem on the game. Yeah, yeah.
TAYLOR
Play that one too.
MARCUS
Do you have? It. Yeah, that's worth about 800. Bucks as well I. You are sitting on a gold mine.
TAYLOR
But it's like tamagotchi's as well. They are extremely expensive now, are they? Yeah. You used to be. Able to get. Well, when like so not not the ones that just recently come out, but the ones that are like first Gen second Gen third Gen they you could buy them for like? 30 bucks at the time. And now they're going for easily over 500.
MARCUS
I'm checking this right now just because not it's not that. I don't believe you, but wow. OK, yeah, if you.
Speaker 6
Get it if.
MARCUS
Sorry, hold on a second. Some of their original first Gen sealed Digimon Digivice for 2 1/2 grand or best offer.
CRAIG
2 1/2 grand, yeah.
MARCUS
Yeah. If they're, if they're sealed, they're worth an absolute mint.
CRAIG
Yeah. Well, and in the studio, we're sitting on Castle Grey Skull, which Marcus brought into the media mothership collection from a a local supplier, centre buyer, seller Guy.
Speaker 1
There we go.
MARCUS
Guy who was trying to pay off. It was. It was so funny because he he actually when I was buying it off, he was like, oh, so you're a bit of a hey man fan then I said no, not even Miley. I'm I'm buying this for a friend. I don't know anything about. Hey, man, I would guess that castle Castle Grayskull back in the day probably would gone for in the ballpark of, I guess, $200 a year. Now I'm going to actually see if I can find out how much it cost back in the day. I'm going to get original original castle Grace. Go RP. I'm really curious.
CRAIG
Because we could turn medium mothership basically into one of. Those auction shows. Yeah, just we just spend the day the show like scrolling through things, talking about. Well, references to he's dreaming for that price, yeah.
MARCUS
Tell him he's dreaming.
CRAIG
We could do live.
MARCUS
Purchasing. Yeah, definitely. Ohh yeah. Bidding on eBay, that's. Always good fun.
CRAIG
Just drink people stream that content.
MARCUS
I don't know, but yeah, they should. I I've recently gotten into buying Dreamcast games. It's got a very small but very devoted fan base. Hold on a second. Alright, I'm trying. I've got a I've got a price for Castle Grace Goal 27 U.S. dollars in 1981. Alright, so.
CRAIG
I don't know what the trading. Dollar exchange rate was but at worst let's say it was double 60.
MARCUS
In Australia, so hold on a second. So basically. So essentially that, that's. Tripled over the last 40 years. That's yeah. So if so, that's so yeah, Castle Grayskull, if it costs $27.00 back then that would mean that it it would have cost 84 U.S. dollars in modern money, which again is about $150.00 Australian.
CRAIG
Yeah, yeah, yes and yeah, because it is fun to look back, I tell my wife as as I as I tell her, we can't throw this stuff away out one. I think it's called. It's a car racing one where it just came in at the end of the life. Cycle of the original. Xbox and so not many copies were sold and because of that, it's expensive now. Right now the good game, it's nothing to. Reflect on the quality of it. It's just. Rare in terms of copies that were made.
MARCUS
A friend of mine bought me because I'm a huge James Bond fan. A friend of mine bought me the last Pierce Brosnan bond game on the game Cube everything or nothing for Christmas last year or the year before, rather and it still has the the AB price tag on it. It went for $110 in the early to mid 2000s and now you can get it. $15. But you got you got the the other the. Other the other way around, where if you buy a A if you bought a Pokémon game like Pokémon Black for I guess 40 bucks from. Today, that's worth 150. $200.
CRAIG
And this is the course retail people tell of the cookbook boom as well, that that it was overinflated and the speculators market and you know, the height of the what was the 90s? I think that market.
MARCUS
Yeah. The early to mid 19 it, it started blowing up in the late 1980s when people were getting like the the original copies of Action Comics, one being sold so much. We're starting to gain. Correction and everyone thought, hey, if we buy a rare this this comic that's new and we Poly bag it, it's gonna be worth so.
CRAIG
Much that's right, variant covers limited editions like and. It was basically being advertised to pump up that speculator market, so people would be buying 5 copies of the one issue and. Then it it it, it just fell over because there wasn't actually. An audience to purchase, yeah.
MARCUS
Material the the reason why copies of Action Comics one were so valuable is because at this point there's only 20 comics left. 2020 copies of the original Action Comics were relaunched, expensive one from the early 1990s, which is the most sold comic of all time sold and shipped 3.4 million units and people were encouraged by multiple copies. As well as investments, so you'd have some people who actually own more mint copies of X-Men volume one than there are mint copies of Action Comics one.
CRAIG
Investments to sell later, yeah.
MARCUS
In the world, yeah, so.
CRAIG
Yeah, video games. So you've been doing boulders, gates. Of course. We covered the speed run thing for sex. Have you done any of the six? Missions you have to. Have I mean that's the whole? Thing for the game, no.
MARCUS
D speed runs X.
CRAIG
Good. I'm trying to complete the game as quickly as possible and be this romance things and now what I love about the stories. Were covering was that? The games manufacturer, distributor or developer. Let's say developer. Developer patched it to ensure that it was adequately. Difficult require, yeah. Difficulty. And and and. A level of romance. What is welcoming to you?
TAYLOR
It's a good game. It's a really good game. I put it as #1 and then Skyrim above that, Skyrim untouchable.
CRAIG
Yeah. OK. We might come back to boulders. Gate and bring up top 50 controversies because, right? Now we're doing. Doctor Who's top 50 controversies because we're up to controversy.
MARCUS
38 no 39. Is there is the?
CRAIG
BBC versus Graham. Williams. Yes. Alright. So we're up to controversy. 39 The BBC versus greenways as people know the last two weeks we've been doing this list from Den of Geek inspired by the controversies kicked up by the new Doctor who. And the kind of outright fandom that reacted against alleged weakness that they felt was not in the DNA of Doctor Who, and pointing out the fact that Doctor Who has always been controversy, it's always been in the middle of debate so. #39 the BBC versus Graham Williams Graham Williams struggled at times. As the producer of doctor. Who not only had he. To cope with the BBC. Result. This error is saddled with a reputation as cheap and cheerful when in many respects it was a massive battle to get anything on screen at all. In some cases they didn't succeed. So the controversy here, I guess is. Is the fact that the showrunner. Right. Graham Williams was the showrunner at that time, was beset with so much trouble that really there we should be thankful there's any Doctor Who happening. Was that the the case you feel? I mean those those those episodes. They they they cherished my fans or they seen as kind. Of like, yeah, well.
MARCUS
There, there are. There are a couple of stories from that era that are held in very high regard and a lot that are not held in very high regard at.
CRAIG
What's? What's that? Yeah. Can you give us the worst episode?
MARCUS
Probably the horns of Nimon that won.
Speaker
Nimon. Nimon.
MARCUS
Nine months. I've never. I just. All I remember is that there's the dude who, like, sold it. Yeah, we he gets, he gets shot and he says you're all doomed. You're all doomed. And he literally starts laughing. Look, the actor breaks character because because he's over acting. So, like, he just bursts out laughing.
TAYLOR
Soldeed soldeed.
MARCUS
I'm pretty sure at one point you also. See his pants. Split in hull.
TAYLOR
I haven't seen that, but I can imagine it.
CRAIG
So great. So this is kind of like I'm, I'm just looking at some some images. So this is kind of set in a A.
TAYLOR
A future Satan. Why? What is it? It's it's a future world that's got. That's like with the Minotaur. It's basically what it is.
CRAIG
All right, right. Right.
TAYLOR
They have people and they have to go through a labyrinth, and then there's the 9/1 at the centre, who isn't actually a man at all, but they look like a minotaur and.
MARCUS
A minute paper mache mentor with absolutely absolutely no budget.
CRAIG
Paper mache. It's fantastic. It is so better mache. You totally do that for a school cost.
MARCUS
They probably did. That's probably how they got.
Speaker
It made.
Speaker 1
It's that is.
CRAIG
That one that's so bad it's good.
TAYLOR
Though what I liked is overreacting over acting.
CRAIG
This is the guy that played the the the this guy, the guy. With the crown. Wow. So he really hams it up. Tom Baker's performance, I mean, I mean. Don't get such a kind of reputation. For always bringing a lot of energy into it is he. Does he dial it in? Is he ever accused of dialling in?
MARCUS
Episodes or or constantly he's he's he basically he.
Speaker
Hello all.
CRAIG
You mean do you mean? Phoning now or dialling. I'm sorry, phone. What is the difference? Yeah. Like like just.
MARCUS
Dialled, dialled in is really precise. Phoned in as? You just don't care or phoned. In. Yeah. Yeah, no.
CRAIG
The first really, there's a difference, yeah. I really wish I'd. Known that. Because they're quite dramatic differences, it's OK if someone says you really dialled in that performance because you're saying you're really honed in and. Did it super? Where did you say you're in? Tuned in.
MARCUS
Because, yeah, toward towards that end of his tenure, he was he. His mental health was terrible, and he was extremely he was very he had occupational burnout and he's always had problems telling longer than any other doctor that he really chafed if he was given direction that he didn't agree with, or if he wasn't allowed to.
CRAIG
Right.
MARCUS
Go off book so. Although although Baker. 'S in in his first three seasons in in, in a few of his later seasons, he's he is a few stories in his later seasons he is terrific. Often if he. Didn't like the material he was given, or he did like people was.
CRAIG
Working with you just sleepwalk. Ohh yeah. Any other? Memorable episodes from this era of Graham. Williams that people should check. Out, I mean the horns of Newmont. Is possibly so bad it's good there is.
MARCUS
City of death, which everyone agrees is 1. Of the best ones. And we've hoped that one before on the show.
CRAIG
And city of death is watching out. Because it was well, it was it.
MARCUS
Was written by Douglas Adams. It's got a. Really good villain. Cause it was Julian Glover plays the main villain. You might not know his name, but you know his face. He's been. He's been villains in a villain in Star Wars in he was player selling Game of Thrones. He was the main villain in the third Indiana Jones movie. He's been a main. He's been a villain in basically every major fantasy or I'm pretty sure he was a bad guy in The Hobbit. Or Lord of the Rings at some point, but I could be wrong. Yeah, I'm probably wrong. But basically, and it's just this is very. It's very whimsical, but not in a twee way. It was filmed in Paris, so it looks more. It looks more expensive than it is. And there's a cameo from John Cleese as an art critic, which is very.
CRAIG
Using and I guess yeah, the the monster makeup it it kind of works better than the horns of Nimon. Yeah, it's neon.
MARCUS
Better it's better than the the paper mache Minotaur.
CRAIG
Yeah. And Miss John, please. Right. So City of death. So probably a back to back feature city of death and horns of Nimon. Potentially. Alright. Controversy #38. It's not finished. Then we have had a VHS edition with linking the name and effort to this version, but for various reasons it was decided that it wasn't acceptable. Queue lots of grumbling capital letters and online mail content. So what happened there? So there was a version that got done, but it wasn't done.
MARCUS
It it so it was never. It was never completed. They never finished but.
CRAIG
To shudder, I remember because. Yeah.
TAYLOR
Do those strikes?
CRAIG
That had to take. Episodes from like the five doctor Us, these were strikes which hit the production of TV content.
MARCUS
I think, yeah, I think I think these. Will worker strikes more Southern rider strike?
CRAIG
OK. So what's happened since then? Has anyone watched any of these attempts to?
TAYLOR
I I saw the animation sort of and it's it's unwatchable I.
CRAIG
Actually show it. Really, because it has such a reputation, right?
TAYLOR
Don't like it?
CRAIG
I mean basically this is. His he's it's meant to be his last episode that was never aired. It was the. Was it was episode, it was last.
MARCUS
F the loss, the loss. Story of season of his sixth season, which is the last one that Graham Williams and Douglas Adams. Worked on right.
CRAIG
He Tom Baker went on to perform. More doctor after.
MARCUS
That just one last season with.
Speaker
OK.
MARCUS
The John Nathan earlier.
CRAIG
Right. But for some reason this episode, which was. Like how complete it was it like, how much is.
TAYLOR
I can't remember.
CRAIG
Like the animation, is it all animated or have they used some of the real footage and then animated bits around it?
TAYLOR
I think there's like some real footage, not not knocking about in there. And then the majority of it is animated. But that's like with like the Daleks master plan and the the animation that they put in with that but.
CRAIG
These were aired, weren't they? And then they were animated to fill in the fact that the BBC erased their originals. See that there's. A intended for DVD release, the animation version and it's.
MARCUS
Into some of his future stories. He was because he was. Like gently later on.
CRAIG
Right. Yeah. Sad. OK. So #37 Marcus, you can read out #30.
MARCUS
737, OK. Douglas Adams, 10. Sorry. Stop that. It's silly. Quite silly. Douglas Adams tenure as script editor is typified by two. Things firstly, there's some glory by the stage, felt untouchable and his willingness to muck about rubs off on the rest of the cast, including his drinking buddy Graham. Crowden Doctor Who attracts people who want things to be taken very seriously indeed, begging the question of what the hell they're doing, watching Doctor Who and this approach was a step too far for.
CRAIG
Some right. So Douglas Adams widely is considered one of these great figures of science.
MARCUS
Fiction. Right? Time he wasn't getting paid for writing his own stuff. And some of these episodes, the the film stuff was pretty good. And if it had ever been finished, it probably would have been a really good story because they put a lot of up, a lot of the seasons budget. Into that story, really.
CRAIG
Yes. And then they couldn't complete.
TAYLOR
It yes, very unfortunate.
MARCUS
That's and they actually finished that season with the horns of Nimon, which meant that it went on a massive winter. Wow.
CRAIG
Wow. Really. That's one name on finished. Was that season?
MARCUS
Five season some bakers 6th season which means overall it was season.
Speaker 1
Excuse me, right?
CRAIG
Wow, wow and the animation version you've. Seen doesn't really. Yeah.
TAYLOR
I I just don't. I just don't like the. Animation style so yeah, but here the.
CRAIG
Moments of imagination, but then silliness. So what? What is that silliness? What's it mean? That silliness?
MARCUS
I like that you said that Douglas Adams is is considered a revered figure in science fiction when it's it's. I've always thought it. He's more so a comedy who works in this. He's more of a comedian who who works within the sci-fi genre. But I guess I guess he's it's a little concept within Doctor Who is.
CRAIG
Guess it's comedy. Yeah, that's where you're at.
MARCUS
A concept for. Generation when the Time Lord dies, they get reborn into a new body. And he had to recast the actor who played Romana, who was a time lady, and the original actor left after her won an. Like season and because they couldn't get FRA regeneration scene, there's a scene where the new the new Ramana Lal Award she actually tries on multiple different bodies until she finds one. The doctor is. Happy with right. Ohh wow. Then they they.
CRAIG
Were burning through. Your generations which.
MARCUS
Are limited because they were very rigid on the time. Will generate 12 times and after the 13th regeneration they're dead forever.
CRAIG
Right.
TAYLOR
And so they she. They tried on the body of someone that she'd seen she appropriate.
CRAIG
Like, not just cultural preparation like like individual preparation and the same Colin Baker, right. He played a character before becoming the doctor.
MARCUS
Yeah, he was Commander Maxil in arc of Infinity and he got he got called Archie by the producer because of his arch performance. And he got he got. Told to tone it down and he was told that the show was called Doctor Who, not commander Maxill, and his response is that we all think everyone thinks that the main character of their own story and. That's just how we.
CRAIG
Played that role, that is well, well regarded at the time when you Davidson.
TAYLOR
He tried to tried to kill Perry.
CRAIG
That's right, yeah. All right. So so the part of the silliness of it and example of that is the remainder one and two and the fact that she burns through her generations trying to find the generator doctors happy with, which sounds so sexist and.
MARCUS
Astra. He's OK with it.
CRAIG
How is that handled in terms?
MARCUS
Tenon everyone just sort of pretends it didn't happen.
CRAIG
Because it seems, yeah. Because yeah, as you were saying, like, 13 years at that stage, the 13 regenerations was established. Yes, right. So Douglas Adams was just stuff. Yeah. Yeah, this is funny. We're gonna play it and.
TAYLOR
You you could just say that she was like having a a body camelia.
CRAIG
It's very kind of gamified in that way.
MARCUS
Alien worlds. Yeah. And so when they when the TARDIS touches down the new plant they're visiting and the the the view screen opens up and it's a. Quarry, the Doctor, the doctor goes. Ohh. Look rocks.
CRAIG
All right, #36 is Tom and Lala Lala Lala sitting in a tree on off relationship, appeared to be digital rather than analogue, and it states affected a lot of their things together. Their city of death. Where they run around Paris holding hands. Basically all of the Doctor Romana shipping comes from there from here, and then there's. State of decay. Where they can barely look at each other. Anyone who's heard her on the DVD commentary will know that Ward's scorn could power a national newspaper for months. Wow, really?
MARCUS
There's a a truly beautiful interview where someone said to Lula Ward, who was The Who was the worst ever monster that you. Met on Doctor Who. And she said completely straight face Tom Baker. And then they have to change the subject very quickly.
CRAIG
She and that was just a kind of Puff piece interview up until.
MARCUS
Then or no, I think it was a reasonably. Serious interview but. No, because they they were married for five months in 1980.
CRAIG
That's during their season like.
MARCUS
I think to I think they got married not long afterwards cause TomTom. Baker says that if you. If you if. You look at it from the from a positive perspective though, the whole relationship. Lasted a year and.
CRAIG
These are including the Doctor Who performance.
MARCUS
Yes, I believe they got divorced after she left the show, and in fact, she may have left the show because she.
CRAIG
Right.
MARCUS
Was so sick of. Working with him. Gosh, he's actually spoken about. That marriage and said that as soon as they got married, he spent basically every night out drinking. With his friends. Gosh. It was not a happy time for either.
CRAIG
Wow. Wow. I met very.
TAYLOR
Much I was about vampires.
CRAIG
But what is it about it that?
MARCUS
Baker for longer than he was to take the same. That's. Yeah, because he. He comes into work.
TAYLOR
At which point he dies one of the. Only ones that. Die. Yeah, not sure, but I think he was pretty much hated by a lot of the fans. And so they wanted to put in a really tragic death where he was a very, very put his life on the line and made the ultimate sacrifice.
CRAIG
Right, yeah.
MARCUS
And The funny thing is that he. Actually makes things worse.
CRAIG
So what are your thoughts on state of decay?
Speaker 1
Well, is it worth?
MARCUS
Watching if, if I've seen it, I haven't seen it since 2004. So I I can't answer that. Question. Sorry really, it's just like remove.
CRAIG
The vampires. Not even.
MARCUS
Remote. Wow.
TAYLOR
Vampire bats, there's like, is there like a rocket that's going off or something like that?
MARCUS
Because my most doctors.
CRAIG
One of these these are the controversies. We'll do one more. We have to wrap up. So #35 out are out with the old kids love canine, So what better way to bring them on board with your new Uber serious version of the show than by blowing him up after 5 minutes like canine? The Sonic screwdriver was deemed too useful a device using reading so canine. Robot Dog match the screwdriver in canine were. Two useful advice and kind of made create a storytelling challenging because of.
MARCUS
That well, the sun is here. Driver started as an actual screwdriver or as a lock pick. They they just really wanted to show off their special effects so they could show a screw getting screwed in without.
CRAIG
Making contact so yeah, I remember watching that.
MARCUS
But then it became just a magic wand. I think that the first time it really sort of jumped the shark as a tools when the 3rd Doctor uses it as a mine detector. It can just. It just does whatever it does, whatever the script requires that it does, yeah. And the same with the same with canine, because he can interface with because they're both iconic and I always like and I never got the hate for him and just use either canine or.
CRAIG
The Sonic screwdriver and they were both gone away, but I was in the case canine left with Sarah Jane when.
MARCUS
Kayla actually never. Never met Sarah Jane in the original series.
CRAIG
Right. Keenan was introduced after Sarah's fun.
MARCUS
Yeah, the original the original canine stays with Leela and the second one stays with Ramana in East Base. And then he just doesn't. The doctor just doesn't make any more after that. And then the Sonic screwdriver gets broken during Peter Davis's tenure.
CRAIG
Right, right, right. So. Both at canine and the Sonic screwdriver both done away with. Yeah. And and the idea being here that that's also about making it more would you recommend? Or any canine episode that.
TAYLOR
You come in the TARDIS, cut away.
MARCUS
Oh yeah, he has. He has robot Larry, he has robot laryngitis for one story.
CRAIG
That's fine.
TAYLOR
Ohh that's true, yeah.
MARCUS
What is it? How? Can Robert get laryngitis? What do you?
Speaker 6
Need it for.
MARCUS
But because they they knew the stories only taking over mostly rocky. Around they're like we cannot move.
CRAIG
Right.
MARCUS
His sidelined leg.
CRAIG
Right. Yeah, because the the original the.
TAYLOR
I'm. I'm can't. I don't know if I remember this correctly, but I think the voice act of the canine was also the voice actor for ORAC in Blake 7. Ohh.
CRAIG
Blake, 7. And that's a much more serious.
TAYLOR
In a in a way.
MARCUS
It it tries to be serious. My my favourite story about the production of of Blake 7, relatives leaned over, crossed out the the the words and dozens of and.
CRAIG
Wrote too. Absolutely make this messed over this. Year I feel.
MARCUS
We've learned that Taylor is sitting on a gold mine. With his well, actually.
CRAIG
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we've got alternative. Plan for a new maybe a new radio show in India, which would just be cause they've got the what's the ABC or BBC? I guess the is that the one where they have the old people commenting on old things, that's all we do, yeah. Antics.
TAYLOR
Fashion Week.
CRAIG
For pop culture. Sounds good. Alright, well, you know, we'll set up the Kickstarter and keep listening coming up next we have K pop unlimited. We have Taylor from K pop mood now in.
MARCUS
OK.
CRAIG
The studio.
TAYLOR
You do.
CRAIG
OK, pop unlimited.
TAYLOR
Good songs.
Speaker
OK.
CRAIG
Any Doctor Who references? Is there any Doctor Who linked to Kpop?
TAYLOR
Not that I.
CRAIG
Can think of, right? Well, there's a challenge. Feel free to comment, probably not on the Twitch, cause I'm gonna close that now, but you can you can message us in on 0488811707 for Doctor Who K Pop references. And that's been media matters for another week. Thank you, Taylor and Marcus. Joining us?
MARCUS
Thank you for. Having us. Thanks Brian.
TAYLOR
OK. Thank.
CRAIG
You and I'll press buttons now you.