top of page
  • Writer's pictureCraig Norris

How to Watch Doctor Who and Other Franchises in the Best Order: A Chat with Quiz Master Marcus Johns

Episode 50 - With host Craig Norris, and joined by Taylor Lidstone.

First Broadcast on Edge Radio, Friday 13 October 2023.


Join us for a fun and geeky conversation with Marcus Johnson, the pop culture quiz master who knows everything about Doctor Who. We discuss the best way to watch the iconic sci-fi series, from the classic to the modern episodes. We also compare Doctor Who with other popular franchises, such as Star Wars and Indiana Jones. Plus, we explore the latest trend of ‘silent walking’ on TikTok and what it reveals about our society.


Watch Here:



Listen Here:



Links:

'Silent walking' is taking off on TikTok, but what does it actually say about us? - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-08/silent-walking-taking-off-on-tiktok-boosting-youth-mental-health/102938224

What’s the Best Order to Watch (All of) Doctor Who? | Den of Geek https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/whats-the-best-order-to-watch-all-of-doctor-who/

How to Watch the Star Wars Movies in Order | PCMag https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-watch-the-star-wars-movies-in-order


Listen live to “Media Mothership” every Friday 4-5pm (Australian Eastern Standard Time) via YouTube, Twitch, and Edge Radio.


Follow us on


Transcript

Craig Norris

Alright, welcome to Edge Radio, 99.3 FM and this is media mothership for another week. We where we explore. Everything in and around the world of media. How it shapes our reality around us, and as always, we're broadcasting out of Edge radio studios in Nepal, Luna. Hobart TAS. I'm your host Doctor Craig, joined by Mr Marcus Johnson. How's it going? Good. Good. Good quiz, master extraordinaire.

Marcus Johnson

Yes, Mr so quiz 18th of November at the Republic Bar and. Cafe totally not sponsored content, sorry.

Craig Norris

Where can people go to find out more?

Marcus Johnson

Test pop dot. Org dot, AU or hit up test. Up on Facebook or on Instagram?

Craig Norris

And that is a fun, exciting quiz show that explores popular culture. And this happen.

Marcus Johnson

Too loud, there's been an there's an odd like a thrilling sound in the right one. Alright, but that's fine.

Craig Norris

Maybe it's, as we were talking about before, with the character of the master and Doctor Who having the drums. It's some kind of audio trigger that's going to.

Marcus Johnson

Drive me insane and cause. Me to try to open. Up a portal to Gallifrey.

Craig Norris

Ohh do you see I have plugged in quite a bit of technology to the desk for this show for the first time and I'm wondering whether it's. Something which has. You can try those headphones.

Marcus Johnson

I'm just going to have the headphones off today. I think just because I've I've had a lot of very bad experiences with mikes going there, speakers and and feedback recently, so I'm just just just.

Speaker

I don't know. Not that I.

Marcus Johnson

Don't. Not that I don't trust your techie skills, it's. Just it's a. It's an irrational fear.

Craig Norris

At this point, I think that's well founded. Well founded. So John Marcus is here. We're gonna unpack packs. Which? He came back from which occurred. Last Friday, which is the. Big video game indie game Nintendo various fun. Game console experiences, so we'll unpack some of that and we're going to. Look into some Doctor Who doctor. Who news and bite off one of the old and chestnuts, which is what order should you watch? Pop culture franchises in so we're gonna bite off 3 and talk about what order we should. So if you have questions or comments during the show, feel free to. Reach out and message us on the chat via SMS on 0488811707. Or you can. Leave a message on the YouTube or Twitch stream. You can find us on YouTube or Twitch live streaming right now. Visually as well by searching media mothership on YouTube or Twitch, so feel free to post up a message and we'll try our best to acknowledge it. So keep listening to exciting news and events around.

Speaker 1

Troubled by the multiple narratives ever question the possibility of a stable meaning, one and deconstruct it all. Edge Radio doesn't just offer you media. We offer you media mothership. Media mothership designed to expose you to the simulacra of today for one hour of playful irony. What are you waiting for? Hop on the media mothership.

Craig Norris

Alright, first bit of interesting news that I've come across. Neither of which. It turns out, speaks to our experience or something on ABC News talking about the phenomena of silent walking, which is taking off on TikTok. The moment when you heard the phrase silent walking Marcus, what came to mind?

Marcus Johnson

What came to mind for me? Was it silent walking is just walking in my.

Craig Norris

And the the the side what? What? What do you think? The silent. Component would mean.

Speaker

Well, if I.

Marcus Johnson

Hear the very silent walking. I just imagine someone with, I guess, noise dampening shoes walking in such a way that they themselves do not make. Yeah, exactly ninja.

Craig Norris

Ninja total. Yeah, yeah. No, it's more talking to that phenomena where typically this occurs. I guess where people are on like a plane or they're on a bus or they're even going walking to the shops or something and you feel the need, or maybe you constantly have earphones plugged in listening to music and that is not silent walking. That's what's referred to for some as as their life walking. Right. They'll, they'll. They'll always walk with some sound on them. So the challenge on TikTok has been to walk. But walk without music or any form of of things plugged in playing sounds to you. Which for some people it turns out to be challenge, right? And and turns I mean this is a TikTok. I could actually do, I think quite confidently. Usually I avoid the TikTok challenges, right. the IT was planking way back in the day there was the one the the powder. Do you see the powder like you? Ate this powder.

Marcus Johnson

The the the cinnamons cinnamon yeah challenge. And the and the tight pods obviously.

Craig Norris

Tide pods. Yeah, yeah, all of which are outrageous, and none of which, which I've done. But they're this ones are really. Interesting. And I mean for me. It opens up that that broader question of. Of you know, boredom, allowing yourself to be bored, allowing yourself to not be stimulated in a location and to instead just inhabit it. Whereas I think the certainly, I guess the argument goes most people when. They're feeling bored. Or when they're doing something menial, like walking locations, they'll put in a podcast, they'll put headphones on and listen to a podcast, or listen to music. And the idea being that. Are we losing something because we're having stimulation? That is where where we're having this craving of needing stimulation because we don't want to be left alone to our own thoughts. We don't want that silence to creep in. And I'm sure a psychologist would say it's. Really important to have boring. Right, because there was that argument that that's why there was that like 5-8 years ago there was that colouring in book boom, right, everyone started getting colouring in books and really complicated ones and colouring in. And part of it was saying it's it's fun because it's boring. It's fun because it's not about, you know, creating something. Which you know is needed for your job or or needed to serve a function. It's. It is kind of dull.

Marcus Johnson

It allows it allows the mind to wander and not be focusing on all these different external stimuli, essentially.

Craig Norris

The article raises some interesting question is. Constant distraction harmful. Right. I mean, is if you're walking. And particularly if you're in a cityscape, one of the cliches is you shouldn't be walking and looking at your phone. You shouldn't be walking and trying to multitask by talking on your phone or anything else, because that distraction can mean you're not doing the other parts of walking at 100% or at a required attentive like you. Don't cross the road. If there's guards kind of movement. So many people are concerned that people who are cocooning themselves in distraction through audio, maybe placing themselves in in safe, unsafe situations and also yeah, maybe maybe avoiding. Listening to their own thoughts. Do you listen? Do you listen to your thoughts, Marcus?

Marcus Johnson

Oh, absolutely this. 100% I I I make up stories in my head or have like review things that I've watched or read or listened to in the past while I'm walking, or make plans for what I'm going to do. Later on or. Try to brainstorm questions to ask at a quiz night. Stuff like that. Just use that time when you're walking. To sort of get your thoughts. In order.

Craig Norris

Yes, yes, yes. Rather, I mean, look, I am as guilty as the next person for listen to podcasts. This show is podcasted, and I'd love people to be listening to. Sure. So it is one which I am guilty of as well of creating what some people perceive as a problem, right? Content for podcasting, which people will use to just distract themselves, to get out. At the moment it is, you know, are we addicted to our thoughts? Are we addicted to distraction? Yeah, raises some big questions. Silent walking, though. I mean, I guess the next challenge with the silent Walker would only be would also be that kind of mindfulness walking right where you're. Aware of your thoughts and you're you're trying to be in the. Moment though so. It's like, OK, I'm, I'm now thinking about cooking tonight. Stop thinking. Ohh, not stop thinking. Let's let's acknowledge that. And instead I want to be mindful of walking the breezes on my face, the sound of. My footsteps. Something like this. So it's that's an even more challenging task, right? So that would be the next level. If you're playing a video game, start silent walking without audio then. Mindfulness walk. Yeah, I'm going to set that up as my TikTok trend. We do have content on Tik. T.O.K, which you can listen to. However, I want to introduce the next segment with a short little audio clip, and we'll see how many people can. Identify what the topic is.

Speaker

Sometimes I think there's something missing, like I had something lovely.

Craig Norris

And it's gone.

Speaker

While lying in bed sick. I love this friend called on a noble.

Craig Norris

I had to wipe her memory to.

Speaker

Save her life.

Craig Norris

If she remembers me, she wouldn't. All right. And that of course, is the unmistakable tones of David Tennants. We had the TARDIS wheezing. So it is Doctor Who and Marcus. I know you're in as a as a huge doctor. Who fan.

Marcus Johnson

Yes, I think that's a reasonable thing.

Speaker

Yes, yes.

Marcus Johnson

To say I.

Craig Norris

Mean what? What? What's? Your Doctor Who qualifications, if I had to, what places you in? Possibly a league slike like above. Someone that. Just watches it for.

Marcus Johnson

Instance. Oh man, I. I I wouldn't necessarily give myself qualifications. It comes to new who I watched most of the original that still exists because it started around late around this time 20 years ago 2003 with the 40th anniversary. They reaired everything from the first 7.

Craig Norris

Doctors on ABC.

Marcus Johnson

Yes, Monday to Thursday.

Craig Norris

Right. They had William Hartnell. I remember that. That was. That was a long time ago. That was like 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I still in. I was not in.

Marcus Johnson

20 years ago.

Craig Norris

Hobart it's different state.

Marcus Johnson

Yeah, I remember watching it because I was 13 when it started. So I remember watching it my parents because they watched it when they were teenagers and young adults and children as well. And it was a lot of fun watching it as a family over over dinner in front of the TV. And I watched most of it. I remember I didn't see a huge amount of Sylvester McCoy purely because one, there's not like he's he's only in, I think. 42 episodes and this was on in summer when I was out doing things rather than watching TV at 6:00 at night.

Craig Norris

So this is interesting. What we're hearing here is. Marcus Johnson's autobiographical. Engagement, doctor. Right. So you you. When was the? What's the earliest memory? You have a. Doctor Who, like if. We were do a chronology of like. Like, what's your experience with Doctor Who from its? Earliest memory onwards.

Marcus Johnson

Watching the watching the first episode in November of 2003, yes.

Craig Norris

You're right, and that was. So that was that. When when they read that was when they. Relaunched it or? Re rebroadcast it from William Hartnell on.

Marcus Johnson

Absolutely from the from the very, very first episode. Yep.

Craig Norris

Really 2003? Yep. So what made you watch it? What was something? What was the reason? Because you were. An adult by then? No, I wasn't. You. Sorry. Well, that's right. You don't age. I forget that. You. You you've always been in this body. How old?

Marcus Johnson

I was. I was 13.

Craig Norris

Were you? Alright, my computer is full.

Marcus Johnson

13 in 2003 I was born in 1990. Right. A lot of it was the, I guess, the enthusiasm that my parents had for it just because they had grown up watching the show as well because the show started. When they were four or. Five. Yes. And then they watched. It all the way through to when it ended, when. They were in their late 20s.

Craig Norris

Well, right, so you were you're. In a doctor. Who family? Absolutely. But you hadn't watched. Anything or any memory, right? No distinctive engagement until 2003. Restart it and then so not only did you watch it, you watched it in order then, right you. You kind of watched most of it as cause the ABC broadcast was fantastic because they started. In the order. That they were produced right from 1963. Yes. Yep. Which is why it was 2000. Three that it.

Marcus Johnson

The IT was the 40th anniversary and it was around the time that they announced they were working on making a revival series because I think I think they announced it around the 40th and they they cast Christopher Eccleston in 2000. 4 and that's when. I I believe that's also when they filmed most of it, because I remember that, yeah, it it aired around April 2005.

Craig Norris

Yes, so so very, very memorable. So we'll quickly here a a quick. Version of the. Theme and we'll get my guest host in the studio to join in now that we're. Doing the chronological experience .2. Ah yes, no. No, no, here we go. All right. So as we were talking about, the reason I'm asking, Taylor, these experiences about Doctor Who is because an article came out in Den of Geek talking about what's the best order to watch all of Doctor Who in and there were three. Modes from Easy mode to hard mode to Ultra hard mode, right? But before we get into these modes of watching it, I was curious to know what our own experiences are of watching Doctor Who. Alright, right? So Marcus was saying you. He watched it when the ABC 40th anniversary replayed all the episodes from William. Right now, 1963 onwards. What was your first chronological experience with doctors? So Yep, would you off the calf have a order that you would recommend someone watch Doctor? Healing like let's. Say it's someone not seen Doctor Who before and they. Say I really want to watch it. What would? You order. Would you just off the cuff? Say you should watch it series. Right. So you go back how far? Like to William Hartnell and and tell them. To watch it. From, like episode one. Yeah. Wow, that's a purist, I would say.

Taylor Lidstone

You know that's it's.

Craig Norris

It's it's it's a model. It's definitely a.

Taylor Lidstone

Model Classic series classic series, then new series classics.

Craig Norris

Then it's just Western McCoy. Yep. And then and then.

Marcus Johnson

Audio and the new series.

Taylor Lidstone

And then audio. So you do.

Craig Norris

It kind of in production. Order, right cause or or the audio or no, not production because the audio. Which is we're kind of between Sylvester McCoy or kind of. Anyway, what was what order? Would you put in Marcus? What order would you suggest someone watch?

Marcus Johnson

Doctor Who. And so my my addendum to that would be to, I'd agree with production order, but because the audio dramas have been made since the early 2000s, yeah, they and they've been going on consistently. And the audio dramas are unique in that they they kind of do whatever they want so they could have they can.

Craig Norris

Because they get some of the. Old cast back they've had. Like, what's the some? Of the doctors they've had brought back for.

Marcus Johnson

The audio adventures every surviving Dr has been in an audio adventure, so Tom Baker took a very long time to come back. But Peter Davison, Colin Baker. So Esther McCoy and Paul McGann have all done many, many, many audio adventures. They're completely. Out of order, they just. They wake up one morning, they say we want to do on the 8th doctor this week and the 6th Doctor this next week and we want to have a. Multi Doctor Story with the 5th and the 8th doctors the week after that.

Craig Norris

Why was the? Why did Tom Baker take so long? I mean such a fan. Favourite and there would have been such pressure.

Speaker

Because there's there's a.

Marcus Johnson

Few reasons there. One of them is that Doctor Who playing the doctor for seven years typecast him for life and he's yeah, he struggled to get much work of any substance after he start playing the doctor. And he basically had to go into voice over work to earn.

Taylor Lidstone

A living which is quite a funny thing. Because he started off as a builder. So really it landed this role as his first role, yeah.

Craig Norris

Jack Harrison Ford. Oh, no. Wasn't he in Sinbad like he had, like, not the. Major role but. He was in bad. As the villain.

Marcus Johnson

Yeah, he's also played Rasputin in Nicholas and Alexandra and I believe he got a Golden Globe nom for it. He had been an actor for a while, but it's it's a it's a similar thing to Harrison Ford. People think Harrison Ford was a Carpenter who got into Star Wars, but he was originally actually became a Carpenter cause he couldn't get any work.

Taylor Lidstone

He was.

Marcus Johnson

As an actor, same with Tom Baker.

Craig Norris

Was like.

Marcus Johnson

OK. Tom Baker had, yeah, he'd had. He'd been acting for a while. A lot of his work was done on the stage, but he had done TV and film prior to the Doctor prior prior to Doctor Who, but. His mental health has never been great. TomTom bakers, so he basically had a really nasty divorce and a complete breakdown gave away all of his possessions, and he was just living at a pub and working.

Speaker

Oh really?

Marcus Johnson

As a bricklayer. Ohh. This was when before he got.

Craig Norris

Cast as Doctor Who. This was a.

Marcus Johnson

Year or two where he got past it was absolutely.

Craig Norris

Really, his life was really dark.

Marcus Johnson

And it was really dark and playing the doctor actually was what helped pull him out of that depression for a while. But the problem is that he got so wrapped up in playing the doctor that he would start to feel guilty for not going out and actually saving the world on a on a weekly basis. And he would get really, really combative with anyone who disagreed with his vision for the show. Like he'd actually direct over directors, and he'd he'd snore through script readings if he didn't like the lions and he'd throw stuff out and improvise. And he was by all accounts, when he was good, he was great. But if he was having a bad.

Craig Norris

All right. Oh wow.

Marcus Johnson

Day he was an absolute nightmare to work with. Yeah. And so the so and but because he stayed in the office 7 years, he was so identifiable as the 4th Doctor because he hadn't had many major roles before that. And although they they did exist, but basically found it very difficult to get work. So he resented the show for a while and he also didn't really want to share the spot with any other doctors. Right. So, but he's mellowed a lot in his older age.

Craig Norris

Yes, because he even had a a small cameo appearance in was it a Matt Smith?

Marcus Johnson

Yeah, in the 50th anniversary special.

Craig Norris

Yeah. Yeah, so. I did not realise that alright so. Anyway, so as we were saying, audio adventures and it's pretty. Much had all the living.

Marcus Johnson

Yes, because the audio adventures have come out consistently for the last, I think, 20 years. I I agree with how you need to consume Dr and production order and that includes listening to the audios and altering them with new who. Just so you're getting all the information at the same time because there are because there are references to the audio adventures in some new.

Craig Norris

Production order, OK.

Marcus Johnson

Episodes right, which is.

Craig Norris

Why production order would be useful? Because yes, that will be in conversation. In a synced or it'll be in a synched conversation, right? Because it's not like you're. Watching this. Is out of the time when the production would have known about it or.

Marcus Johnson

Not because Paul again was in the TV movie in 1996, which was supposed to be a pilot.

Craig Norris

Ohh yeah, the the US thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marcus Johnson

For a whole TV S. Never went anywhere, but gonna. OK, gonna. This is a hill. I'm prepared to die on. Paul McGann is the best casting choice I ever made for the doctor. Was die on. That hill.

Craig Norris

I loved him bringing back like there was the special cameo again he had in the death. Of the doctor or whatever it was the.

Marcus Johnson

The night of the.

Craig Norris

They have. Doctor 9. Doctor. Yeah. And you see him? Giving this standout performer. In in a very short moment.

Marcus Johnson

In in in a webisode that was never meant to be broadcast on TV? Yeah.

Speaker

That's what I say.

Marcus Johnson

You're only you're only supposed to. Watch it online, but because he'd been in the audio dramas and had gone from someone who only had 60 minutes of screen time because he's not in the first.

Craig Norris

And I saw that right. Really. Yep.

Marcus Johnson

With the TV movie and then built up this huge fan following because he did such a stellar job in the audio dramas and built up this supporting cast of characters. And when he's when he's dying before his regeneration in the night of the doctor, he actually named cheques the companions he had in the audio dramas and and and drinks a toast to.

Craig Norris

Wow, so that's a deep cut for fans who had done their homework with the audio dramas for this doctor, for whom most people would only have a vague recollection of the movie. If that. Yeah, because the, the.

Marcus Johnson

Most all fans of the audio dramas, similar to fans of the Star Wars expanded. Will say that the audio dramas are are superior to the to the TV series because they're they're not. They're not constrained by budget, nor by broadcast major broadcasting standards, nor by having to fit into a specific time slot.

Speaker

Correct there. You go. I'm sorry.

Craig Norris

Much like people say about this show.

Speaker

And it holds up really.

Craig Norris

Well, on the podcast, the. YouTube stream. It's really good stream. Anyway, sorry. OK, let's. Go through the modes now, so easy mode den of Geek says the easy mode to introduce people into watching Doctor Who. The order that you should. Suggest them in is so. Sets it up by saying. You know, Doctor Who has been many different shows over its 60 year history and not all of those shows will appeal to different people. If this is your first time approaching the classic series after developing a love for doctors post Christopher Ecclestone adventures, it's best. To take it. Carefully. So then it sets up their chronological order is. A potted history of what I considered the best episodes, so it suggests start with what many fans would consider. It's really good proper who so? Douglas Adams is city of death. Yeah, bit of a safe choice I guess. Most of the stories written by Philip. Cliff, right or not written, is it you were pointing. Out that he's not the writer, he's the.

Marcus Johnson

Philip Hinchcliffe was the producer, yes. For many stories that for the first three years of the Tom Baker era, Robert Holmes was the head writer and Robert Holmes was basically the definitive Doctor Who writer for the classic series so.

Taylor Lidstone

Did not include the books cause I've got a couple of books by Hinchcliffe. And which are dramatisations of like the show of.

Craig Norris

Right. Yeah. So that and he would have written. Those I forgot his name. I'd hoped. He wouldn't. Just maybe want something he didn't, right? Anyway, so we're talking seeds of Doom, Carnival of Monsters, remembrance of the Daleks and Caves of and that. Yep, Yep. They're all stories that fits the doctor at his most doctor rich, big, showy monsters and clever dialogue. All the stuff that first drew them.

Taylor Lidstone

Oh cool. Zani. Yeah.

Craig Norris

Two stories of odd and the Slitheen. I guess that's the the new then maybe even dip into the first episode ever. Unearthly child, right? Because that does. If you're a fan of the new Doctor. New who? It has some parallels with Russell T Davies. Those and then it suggests skipping the three episodes of rather. Ohh rather trained actors to so, although maybe skip the following three episodes of rather trained actors doing their best caveman impressions.

Speaker

Yeah, because the.

Craig Norris

Next, because after the unearthly child, what's the next episode? It's key then.

Marcus Johnson

The the cereal is called 1,000,000 years BC where they go back in time. The first episode of Doctor Who is brilliant, but the remaining episodes in that series.

Craig Norris

Right.

Marcus Johnson

Not very good.

Craig Norris

This is cause cause. What? What a. Writer, is that it? A A British.

Marcus Johnson

Acting drama Academy.

Taylor Lidstone

Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's basically no idea, but in British version.

Marcus Johnson

The version of.

Craig Norris

OK, so these are highly trained actors who are just doing Cavemen. All right? So so skip that then, then get into some challenging stuff. So suggest Sylvester Mccoys, stories like survival and bad. Or what this article refers to as the brilliantly nasty happiness patrol. What do? We think the survival battlefield happiness patrol.

Taylor Lidstone

The happiness we've chosen. Great episodes. I would put that I suppose, yeah.

Speaker

Is it?

Craig Norris

Brilliantly nasty. Well, she's brilliant. Is it nasty? What's nasty about happiness patrol? I've not seen it.

Marcus Johnson

There's a killer robot called the Candy Man who he he's like. He has a really high pitch voice.

Taylor Lidstone

The candy.

Marcus Johnson

Goes big sweets, Dr Boiling sweets and I poured down people's throats like he's.

Speaker

I make sweet.

Marcus Johnson

Basically an 80s slasher movie villain. Yeah, because The thing is a lot of 80s who actually. For some reason takes a lot of stylistic influence from slash. Movies and video nasties. Obviously with a greatly reduced level of violence and nudity, but in terms of some of the choices they make when they're trying. To be scary. I think it's really weird they put remembrance of the Daleks on. There is one that's easy to watch because I I I love it. But it's the combination of every Davros story this is.

Craig Norris

Philip Hinchcliffe again, yeah. Philip Hinchcliffe, remember.

Marcus Johnson

Because that was written by Ben Aaronovitch.

Craig Norris

Well, again written produced by.

Marcus Johnson

No, Philip Hinchcliffe had left the series ages before.

Craig Norris

I'm gonna write some comments on this article.

Speaker

I will tribute.

Craig Norris

You of course, Marcus, but they do.

Taylor Lidstone

I mean, I mean to that point, remembrance of the Daleks is, well, when I was a child was my favourite episode of Classico.

Marcus Johnson

Oh, it's. It's a Stella. It's a Stella. But you, but it's it's. Better if you have watched Ohh. The other 80s era dialect stories because it will. Make a lot more sense, yeah.

Craig Norris

The OK. So then it goes on to talk about. Some old stories. So try William Hartnell's, the time Meddler or Patrick Troughton's tomb of the Cybermen. Do they stand up? Time? Meddler tumour, Cyberman timer. Simon, I do remember.

Marcus Johnson

Tim Times inside men. Timothy Sigman is super racist.

Craig Norris

OK I I I blanked on those. What? What's the racism of team of Sidon?

Marcus Johnson

It has a. An almost mute for a British strong man who gets corrupted by the cyber men. And the the doctor has some line along the lines of you allowed yourself to be enslaved. And then he sacrifices himself to save his white employers. And it's very, very, very.

Speaker

Right.

Marcus Johnson

Problematic. OK, in the actual script in the script and it's not that it makes it less.

Craig Norris

Two of the segments.

Marcus Johnson

In the script, he's meant to be deaf, which is why he. Barely speaks and his. Hearing aid is supposed to be foreshadowing of how he'll be upgraded by the Cybermen, which. Is still which, which in its own way is problematic as it says that people with hearing issues are going. To be very easily. Corrupted, but it's it's just so problematic, but the. Actual story is. Good. It's like a 30s universal horror movie, and it has probably the two best. Dialogue exchanges that Patrick Troughton's doctor actually has. There's the very first one because it was the first episode of Series 5. The first serial of Series 5 and they introduce the the companion was introduced in the final serial. The previous season comes along and they they introduce her to the to the TARDIS and they recap the show and it's basically a a recap. Anyone who's watching Doctor for the first time. It's really well done. And then there's another one where which there's another scene which is only added to fill in time where the doctor talks about his family and. You know, everyone has that and he's got to really want to think about them. But he has such an interesting life going around and exploring the what's the line? It's. Nobody else can do the things that we're doing. That's what makes our lives so interesting. Or something along those. Lines too of the. Side but it's, but it's very problematic so. Be aware of that. Going in well.

Craig Norris

I'm glad you foreshadowed the. Problem that nature of it cause, then it suggests gradually turn the crank until. You're explaining that talons of Weng Chang. Chiang Chiang is widely considered a classic so long as you look past the Oriental racism and the way the stories plot slows to a crawl. For most of the.

Marcus Johnson

Middle episodes. That's the problem with that's the problem with a lot of the six, the six part series is. That they run. Out of steam very quickly the a lot of. Most of the really easy to watch Doctor Who serials are four episodes. If they're 6 to 8. Zones they they can often.

Craig Norris

A lot of kind of padding, yes. Keep going until you're saying things like the costumes in the web planet. Were very good given. What they had to work with and ohh.

Taylor Lidstone

I quit, I suppose.

Craig Norris

The web. Planet. That's the one with the giant. Bees and moths and.

Marcus Johnson

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The obviously cellophane wings.

Craig Norris

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, there's a lot to be said for the twin.

Marcus Johnson

We don't talk about the twin dilemma.

Craig Norris

When is the twin dilemma? I can't recall.

Marcus Johnson

There there is some context is.

Craig Norris

That Colin Baker.

Marcus Johnson

Yes. And there is some context for why the twin dilemma is so bad. Because it is the final serial of that season, and it's the only time where they've introduced to doctor in the last serial and. Had them be the main doctor of. That because, yeah, the caves of Benghazi, which you mentioned earlier, being a really good one, Peter Davison, dies, regenerates at the end of that cereal and the following cereal is the twin dilemma. It's the last cereal of the season and now the 80s was not kind to Doctor Who because it was run by a bunch of guys who had no idea what they were doing. Kays van Razani was written by Robert Holmes, who Co wrote most of the Golden Age.

Craig Norris

OK.

Marcus Johnson

Not most the Golden Age, he wrote some of. The best stories. So Kaizen is an absolute banger. It's one of the all time greats. It was directed by someone who actually cared about it. He's Graham Harper, the director. His his catch phrase was loads of energy before saying action. Terrific, terrific cereal. It riffs on June, it riffs on Star Wars and it rips on the Phantom of the Opera. It's a perfect cereal and then they follow it up with the twin dilemma, which was basically thrown together over team biscuits had really like the the riders just didn't know what they were doing. Super low budget because it was the last. The loss here of the season and historically. Speaking they usually. Have to check it out because I've already spent all the budget and the other thing is that throughout the case of Andrew Zanni, the doctor and his companion are slowly dying of poisoning and in the end the doctor the doctor gets 22 vials of antidote, but he drops one of them, so he feeds one the the remaining one to his companion, and he sacrifices himself. And so he's basically just spent four.

Speaker

Very jump jumps, yes.

Marcus Johnson

Episodes, which is 4 which is 2 weeks in real time because at that point it twice a week. I'm trying to save his companion and in a fit of post regeneration trauma the 6th Doctor tries to strangle.

Craig Norris

Ohh, that's right. Yes yes the. Goodness yeah, Colin Baker did not get off to a.

Marcus Johnson

Good start, which is a shame because he he was and is a huge. Fan of? The show? Really. Yeah, he he been. Watching it since day one and.

Craig Norris

Wow. He stopped.

Marcus Johnson

He was I I believe he was flatmates with Patrick Troughton's son, but don't quote me on that. OK? But he was he wasn't. Is a massive fan and he got given some truly awful scripts to work with where the show had a very low budget and he was made to wear that awful costume which he tested.

Taylor Lidstone

But he was absolutely fantastic again in the audios.

Craig Norris

Ohh, I'd do all your adventures with. Colin Baker are. Quite worth a listen. OK, well, let's move on to ******** mode now. So easy mode was you. Just Cherry picked the best episodes for them to watch from classics on ******** Mode is it introduces it as saying for some purists, however.

Taylor Lidstone

Oh, definitely.

Craig Norris

The viewing or. Is kind of. Sacrilege. And it's to watch it in. Well, yeah. They they say chronological order, right. So.

Marcus Johnson

Chronological from an in universe standpoint.

Craig Norris

Well, no. Chronological order. Yeah. From production, right. So they it goes on to say, well, there's a bit of a. Controversy, right? So it's. It sets up this idea that. At the moment in America, there's a lot of American fans who are crying out warning. For fans not to binge the original series. While Doctor Who aired in the UK as series of Weekly 25 minute episodes with a cliffhanger in the US, These episodes were edited together into movies to be watched in one sitting. Right, so I guess you could binge in America. Have you? Have you seen these movies?

Taylor Lidstone

So. So does that mean that like they've just taken out the end and opening credits?

Craig Norris

I I'm I'm. Curious. Yeah, to see how they've compressed these 25 minute episodes into into a movie that you then watch as you would watch bingeing. You know, six episodes or 4 episodes.

Marcus Johnson

That's that's how they were released on VHS. That was a a pretty common thing, but.

Craig Norris

Ohh really right.

Marcus Johnson

It was a pretty common thing for serialised narratives in the 90s was that they, they did it with Dragon Ball Z as well. They they just cut out the opening and closing credits and there's just rolls from one episode straight to the next one. Yeah, well.

Craig Norris

Yeah, I guess this raises the question of you need to, as the article points out, you need to ration out. How are you going to watch Doctor Who? Like, yes, watch chronologically. But don't binge it. I guess because. It's you'll hit those absolutes which are a lot of filler and it can SAP your. Will to live. Yeah, cause it was because.

Marcus Johnson

It was designed to be watched one episode per week when it aired on the ABC 20 years ago. It was one episode per night, so it's it was a lot easier to watch it. I imagine some of them would be torturous if you tried. The the the dialects master plan is 14 episodes. That's true. That would take you 2 1/2 months to watch it one. Episode a week.

Craig Norris

It must be absolutely torture because it's, you know, it's interesting because my son was talking about one piece and because the anime series has been going so long. On you can't just pick it up and decide to start watching it, cause it's a huge contribution of time, so there's websites now which just. You know, say the episodes you have to watch and the ones which you feel and you can kind of compress it down into a more manageable, you know, month or two of of getting up to up to speed. Similar from the Doctor Who I guess you just gotta. And that was the great thing about the ABC's like broadcasts or or when they rescreened. Was that yeah. You were stuck in that appointment. Viewing. Yeah. And it was. It was nightly I. Want to say Monday to Thursday? Yes.

Marcus Johnson

Monday to yeah six 6:00 PM.

Craig Norris

So the article goes on to say there are benefits for watching the show this way that is chronologically as it was produced from William Hartnell episode One, then episode 234, so forth. You get to see the doctor truly evolve from a cranky, amoral old kidnapper. Would that be a fair? Description of the. William Hartley's first performance, you know that he kidnapped.

Taylor Lidstone

I guess so.

Craig Norris

Into a hero, a trickster and a clown.

Marcus Johnson

Yeah, absolutely. Yep, that's that's what he. That's what he called when when the 1st Doctor William Hartnell comes back with the three doctors, the 10th anniversary special. That's what he says to trout. And he says Ohh. Sir, you're my replacements. A Dundee and a clown.

Speaker

So yeah, it's a, it's.

Craig Norris

A good so you get to see this evolution as they were producing the character. And as we were saying, you know, you get to see that that synchronised discussion with the audio books as well later on, it's a bit of a contribution. Or commitment the the third mode of watching Doctor Who that is suggested is the ultra ******** mode chronological order and this is the one. That I think. Would be fun to explore the debate around. Because it's not chronological. Order from the doctor's perspective, you know where you watch him as the first doctor, William Hartnell. And then the second doctorate and so forth. Instead it's it's it's.

Taylor Lidstone

Chronological entire. That's ridiculous. No.

Craig Norris

No. So the article suggests you you could start with that caveman episode, right? But it's just probably earlier, right. So there's the episode edge of destruction where the doctor and his companions are held back to the beginnings of the Solar system. Or it suggests. Astral. Lava. Lava. OK, I'm sorry.

Marcus Johnson

Custer valva.

Craig Norris

That's why I've got you guys here. When the TARDIS flies. Back to the big. Bang, right. So both those are kind of 0 points in time.

Speaker

Or early early.

Craig Norris

Early dates in time, then the goals to watch Doctor Who in the order of historical time. Period. So it suggests you could hit some really interesting arcs. You'll see the 1st Dr potentially burn down room, then the 10th Doctor Cause an eruption at Pompeii. And the 11th Doctor getting locked. In Pandora, Sia the Pandorica. Or what is the Pandorica?

Marcus Johnson

It's basically a gaol cell.

Craig Norris

Ah, the 11th Doctor. Who are we up? To there, that's Matt Smith. OK, then the 12th Doctor teaming up with the band legend Legionnaires and the Celtic rebels to fight the light eating monster. I do. Vaguely remember that. OK, then it gets pretty weird. Act. You'll see the the 5th Doctor. The 1st Doctor will meet King Richard at the Crusades. Then you have the 12th Doctor fighting the Sheriff of Nottingham, then the 5th Doctor foiling the Masters. Attempt to use Prince John in one of his schemes. Entire 19th century is gonna be really, really busy. And then yeah, it's going to have some really interesting quotes with continuity points out. You have the 2nd Doctor's evil twin falling out of the TARDIS at the end of the enemy of the world, which is set in 2018. And then you'll have the 13th Doctor. Falling out of her TARDIS at the beginning of the woman who fell to Earth, which is also set in 28. It points out. That from the 29th century to the thousand and 600th century, there will be no stories, and there are no stories set on. Earth. So I didn't realise and it's because the beast below and the. Arc of space. Point out that Earth has been wracked by solar storms for that. Time, except during the Ice Warriors, which is an Ice Age during that time. Yeah, well, you're so. Would you? I mean, do you reckon that would work? Try to watch it in in chronological order from time? No.

Taylor Lidstone

No, it's absolute nonsense. You might as well just watch an alphabetical order.

Speaker

That's a good challenge.

Craig Norris

No, no watching it in time order would be fun. In some ways. Right. I mean, I like that kind of. You get to see the. 1st Doctor with King Richard in the Crusades. Then you jump straight. To the 12th Doctor. For the Sheriff of Nottingham and. Then the 5th Doctor. For Prince John. That'd be fun.

Marcus Johnson

I I do like the idea of going straight from the enemy of the world to the woman who fell to Earth just because the enemy of the world was. Made in 19. 66 or 67 and it's very much what they thought 2018 would be like from a 1960s point of. View and it's also just a good story because it's the only one in that season of Patrick Troughton that is not a base under. Age and it's based and it's also the one because he he's Patrick Trouton plays the main. Villain of that.

Taylor Lidstone

Story what's his name? Salamander Ramon.

Marcus Johnson

Salamander, who is meant to be Mexican, but he plays him with the South African accent. For some reason.

Craig Norris

Alright, so just before we skip to the next series or or franchise that many people have problems with the viewing order and what do we think about those ideas for doctor viewing order they? Getting you excited to rewatch Dr?

Marcus Johnson

Who I I would say this, if you watch it in sequence, you you will get sick of individual doctors.

Craig Norris

True. Who do you think would? Be the hardest doctor to to just plough through to to watch.

Marcus Johnson

I would say Tom Baker, which which to a lot of people is sacrilege, but Tom Baker's era is extremely inconsistent in both tone and quality.

Speaker

Right.

Marcus Johnson

Those first three seasons are absolutely brilliant, but they're also really ******** on the horror after that. They slash the budget, and they also slash the horror and they dial up the humour and.

Craig Norris

This companion in this.

Marcus Johnson

So for the first three it's for Harry and Sarah Jane and his first. Then just Sarah Jane is second, then the third one. It's Sarah Jane thing. Solid for one story. Then there's Leela, and then the 4th season of Tom Bakers, when?

Craig Norris

They bring in canine. Ohh, right. And that's the one you're saying it. Cost sync and comedy, raisins and night.

Marcus Johnson

Yeah, the, the, the. Budget goes down the attempts at humour go up and basically I'm I'm all for. I'm all for humorous Doctor Who. There's nothing wrong with that at all like like city of death is a good story. It's very overplayed in terms of everyone saying the best one ever. It's just cause it was written by Douglas Adams but it is a good tour. Good villains like Julian Glover plays the main bad guy in that one who's the only he's the only actor to be a bad guy in Star Wars, Doctor Who. Indiana Jones, James Bond and Game of Thrones. Probably some others as well. But UM. It's just when when there's an increase in you, there's a lack of tension, which means it's harder to get invested, do you think? That's fair to.

Craig Norris

Say yeah. So. Yeah. So you think that Tom Baker? The whole one will be tough. First three will be three seasons would be great, but then yeah. Do you have any thoughts Taylor particular? Cannon of Doctor Who? That'll be tough to get through.

Taylor Lidstone

That would be tough to get through.

Craig Norris

Yeah, the black and white stuff.

Taylor Lidstone

A lot of Colin Bakers televised is hard to get through.

Craig Norris

Right.

Marcus Johnson

The the good thing about Colin Baker, though, is that he. Wasn't there for. Very long as he got fired, yeah.

Craig Norris

Yeah. And he was fired because, you know, audience numbers were plummeting and. They needed to. Reject the series and yeah.

Marcus Johnson

They're also getting a lot of a lot of critique from Mary Whitehouse and.

Craig Norris

Mary Whitehouse is.

Marcus Johnson

She was a conservative media critic who would come down on any kind of violence in children, in quote unquote, children's programming. And I'm not saying the Doctor Who.

Craig Norris

All right.

Marcus Johnson

Isn't a kids show, but it was on at like 6 in the. Evening for families to watch together.

Taylor Lidstone

Anything to do with adric's? Pretty difficult to.

Craig Norris

Watch as well. That's Pete Davidsons Dr. Yeah, Patrick. Yep, Yep.

Marcus Johnson

Also, the just Tom Baker's last season, I I I don't mean to harp on it, but it's the first one where John. Nathan Turner is a producer. And it's just and and it's the I think this was the first one that Eric Saward wrote. John Nathan Turner was very much. He was trying to create a marketable product. He wasn't trying to create a good piece of entertainment and it really shows. And you can just tell the Baker does not want to be there and it's that. It's when when Peter Davison shows up, it's a huge sigh.

Craig Norris

Of relief such a surprise to me. I. Mean. Tom Baker I you know. I loved watching as a kid. And I must admit I. I didn't really make it through. Probably to these last seasons. Because yeah, he's such. A A fan favourite yet? Yeah, as you're pointing out, yeah, you can hit these. Really. Alright. Well, just skipping quickly to Star Wars because I wanted to mention that was another one I was looking up the people debate the order to watch it in. Some people say chronological order. Where it's, you know. Phantom Menace, Phantom Menace, then attack of clones. Da da da da da to rise Skywalker, right. So as they were set in in universe. Then the other version to watch them in his theatrical release order. So you start then with was. 197377. 77 ohh with New Hope said 4 New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. Return the Jedi. Then you wait a long while and then the Phantom menace take the clone so forth. But.

Speaker

The the version.

Craig Norris

Which was new to me, which you knew. Marcus, I don't know if you. Know what Taylor is called the machete.

Taylor Lidstone

Ahead of that.

Craig Norris

Yeah, yeah. OK, right. Because my daughters wanting to watch Star Wars, she's not watched them all yet. So this one appealed to me because it starts with the ones I wanna watch, which is a New Hope. And Empire Strikes Back. And then it says. At the Empire strikes. Back course Leap discovers the truth about Darth Vader spoiler. And like gesturing to that. So then what you do is you do the. 2nd and 3rd prequel as the Flashback. So then you go from Empire Strikes Back to attack of the clones and Revenge of the Sith. So you witness how Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader after the reveal. What I know shock. It's always the journey though. So you watch those two then return of the Jedi. Basically, you don't worry about the. Phantom menace, right? You just don't. Watch it. Yeah, you just do. Tackle clones renders first, then. You return to Jedi, then you. Do force Awakens Last Jedi roses gold and then if you want 10 minutes?

Taylor Lidstone

Just at the end.

Marcus Johnson

I I do, I. Have a lot of. And this is I saw, I saw it twice in the cinemas and I thought it was the dopest thing. Everyone was 9 but it it it also just literally can't slide in with the others. It is a huge continue with the error.

Craig Norris

Phantom menace.

Marcus Johnson

Yeah. And that's it's it's based around.

Craig Norris

Well, you got the mid chlorine, I mean the great thing about skipping phantom menace is you don't really have to worry about midichlorians much. It's not really mentioned much in those later two films. Take the clones and Jar Jar isn't in it. Much and so. Yeah, it does away with a lot. Phantom menace.

Marcus Johnson

And the the problem, the real problem with Phantom Minister continuity perspective is that a completely retcons Obi Wan Kenobi's back story. Because in the original trilogy he says that he was trained by Yoda and that when he met Akin Skyhold, Anakin was already an accomplished pilot and in the Phantom Menace he's trained by another Jedi, Quigon Jin, who is Jesus and not Yoda, and Anakin is a child who is a pod racer and a slave, not an accomplished war hero already, yeah. So Phantom, if you skip phantom menace then it just makes a lot more sense.

Craig Norris

Yeah, I'm not a defender.

Marcus Johnson

But I will defend. I will defend.

Craig Norris

Disney, yeah.

Marcus Johnson

The lightsaber duels in Phantom menace. They are really sick.

Craig Norris

Yes. Yeah. And Darth Maul, you know, good character design. Yeah. Disney has released its own narrative timeline, which basically absorbs most of the animation work. Right. So. So if you're curious, you can see where the Clone Wars rebels resistance and Mandalorian kind of all fit in with some of the. The animated adventures. Yeah. So I'm thinking I might get my daughter to watch it. In the machete order. And then we'll watch Phantom menace at the end. Just just for the memes. And then solo, Rogue one, maybe. Great. Well, look. That's pretty much the show any any last words? I mean you you mentioned Indiana Jones anything. Is that going to open up a?

Marcus Johnson

Whole can of worms because temple of Doom's are pretty cool to Raiders. The lost dog, it's it, said a couple of.

Craig Norris

Years earlier. Right. OK.

Marcus Johnson

So you can either watch that in release order, you can watch it 21345, but you ideally wouldn't watch the 5th.

Craig Norris

Which is the dialer? Destiny. Yes. Which. Yeah, also.

Marcus Johnson

If you if. You're gonna binge all the James Bond movies, skip. You only live twice because it and on a Majesty Secret Service are mutually exclusive. Like they can't coexist.

Craig Norris

Now you're getting me excited because we were talking off air about. How I love those fan theories linking the Sean Connery movie The Rock to Sean Connery's earlier bond adventures, I couldn't remember if it was doctor no, that it was linked to your saying it was actually diamonds are forever because there's a line.

Marcus Johnson

Well, at the end of diamonds are forever. He basically commits domestic terrorism by blowing up an oil.

Craig Norris

Tanker. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. I think it. Yeah. And. And that would be. Reason that the US government could cause basically Sean Connery, you know James Bond is is has been arrested and imprisoned so would conceivably he have been imprisoned by the US authorities. The end of that film.

Marcus Johnson

I I could believe it because he he does a lot of damage to Las Vegas and the surrounds in times of.

Craig Norris

Forever. Yeah, and the and the British Government could have just. Disowned him.

Marcus Johnson

Basically, yeah.

Craig Norris

Right and. That's the of course you know it, it's. On script, James Bond in Cannon in the rock. But fans have said it's. Bond. I mean, conceivably. Yeah. Alright. Anyway, let's meet him by the ship. Show notes are available on YouTube. Keep listening. Coming up next. We have keep pop. Do we have keep popping limited? Yeah, we do great. Anything you want to mention?

Taylor Lidstone

No, I'm. I'm playing the same song again. Ohh all the same songs last week and all the same songs the same song I played last week was the same song one last week playing this week as well.

Craig Norris

Gangnam Style. OK, probably not.

Taylor Lidstone

Ohh God.

Craig Norris

You can. I want us. So listen to previous episodes on YouTube, Twitch and edgeradio.org Dot AU or your podcast provider of choice. If you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe. We've review how can they pee? How can people reach out to you, Marcus, if they want to find out more about quizzes and so forth.

Marcus Johnson

Hit up testpop.org dot AU or go to test pop on Facebook. Or on Instagram test.

Craig Norris

Has pop and that's the local Tasmanian. So yeah. Pop coach. Cool. All right. Marcus Taylor, thank you so much for joining me mothership for another.







17 views0 comments

Bình luận


bottom of page