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  • Writer's pictureCraig Norris

The Indie Filmmaker’s Guide to Pre-Production: Featuring Daniel Brooks & Edward Williams

Episode 52 - With host Craig Norris, guest Edward Williams and Daniel Brooks.

First Broadcast on Edge Radio, Friday 3 November 2023.


In this episode, we learn from two successful indie filmmakers who have overcome the challenges of making films with limited funds. They discuss their strategies and best practices for pre-production, location hunting, and film making on a budget.


You can find out more about the latest film project here: https://www.facebook.com/daniel.brooks.50999405


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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.


CRAIG NORRIS

All right, you're listening to media mothership here on Edge radio. 99.3 FM as always on media mothership, we explore how media can shape. Our understanding of the world around us, the reality we perceive, but maybe in a kind of John Carpenter, they live sense media can interrupt that so that you are you really seeing reality or not as always you can watch us via YouTube or. Twitch, which we are. Probably live streaming, we say probably you never know and you can chat. I mean, if we are at live stream, we're always happy to get a message on the chat on YouTube or Twitch or an SMS on 0488811707.

Think virtually.

CRAIG NORRIS

As always, I'm your host. Doctor Craig Norris, joined by indie film Makers Extraordinaires, is that I think I put the. So that. Incorrectly. You're extremes. Yeah. Yeah. Filmmaker extraordinaires. Yeah. Kind of. Anyway, Edward Williams. Hello. I know you from my first experience.

DANIEL BROOKS

I like that I I would say I'm extraordinary, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Of you was. Was behind a camera, so I always think of you as a kind of master cinematographer, but you have. Many roles that you've done. In your indie filmmaking life.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I I don't think I'm quite ready for the title master, but.

CRAIG NORRIS

Well, yeah, we we could of course start with with. Boring ones like Mr Edward Williams.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yes, that is my. That is my name.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yes, but I I if I mean in fact my my sometimes co-host Taylor. Of course we've made an effort to recognise him as a Lord based on. The dodgy Scottish land property thingy got.

Speaker

Ohh yeah.

DANIEL BROOKS

There's about those. Yeah. Yeah, Yep, Yep.

CRAIG NORRIS

One needed one metre plots, right? On some castle somewhere. And it's like, yeah, you're. A Lord now. Sure. Well.

DANIEL BROOKS

Mast mast, mast.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ohh OK episode.

Speaker 5

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

33 I think of the show. Right, we've unveiled the origins of that. Umm, there you go, yeah. Yeah. So one of those and our media mothership, of course, Full disclosure, we do not encourage or endorse.

Speaker 5

Ventures such as that.

CRAIG NORRIS

Unless they're in complete jest. Or yeah, anyway I.

Speaker

Won't go too.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Well, OK, let's.

Speaker 5

Yeah, Edward.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Derail this whole conversation and talk about Lord.

CRAIG NORRIS

That's true. Where are we going? Where are we going? So, Edward. Ed. Daniel box. Who? I know first from experience with just no. It wasn't it. Was poor for just humans, cause I was on being of despondency.

DANIEL BROOKS

There you are, admitted respondents.

CRAIG NORRIS

Which are great.

DANIEL BROOKS

And obviously, I went to Japan.

CRAIG NORRIS

With you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gosh. Tempted to see what happens in Japan? Stays in Japan like Vegas style. But you know, actually not much unremarkable happen. I mean, some great stories. Yes. And and.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

We'll dig into. Those in a future episode. But yes, yes for the full. Disclosure, you are a fantastic student of mine, Daniel. In the media school of the University of Tasmania, doing various little media projects during those 3 odd.

DANIEL BROOKS

Years. Yeah, 3 odd years, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Odd being the emphasised word yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, it was. No. It was literally three years from. The middle of 2015, to the middle of 2018 pre curbed.

CRAIG NORRIS

That's prehistoric, really. It's it's another ancient era. So you guys, however, have gone on to do some some great film work. And I know, Daniel, you've done on been of despondency. It was kind of directing.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, it feels like it. Yeah, directing and Co writing.

CRAIG NORRIS

And on the socials, I've been noticing new movements happening. Yes, the what's the? It's big love production companies.

DANIEL BROOKS

With yes.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yes, it was. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, it's coming. Out of those guys.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes, you are they.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

We've been, we've been in contact with them for a while.

CRAIG NORRIS

Now, yeah, I'm really impressed.

DANIEL BROOKS

I'm I'm I'm I'm in contact with them on. A daily basis.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, of course you guys. Are big love. Yeah, both metaphysically and literally. Yes, you bring much joy. So big Love Productions is involved in this. Of course you do. Is hitting the ground pre producing and what else location hunting yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah. So we. Started thinking about our next project a few months ago. It was around the time like it was before. Just humans came out and.

CRAIG NORRIS

This is another great little Hobart. Yes, indie film piece so. It's it's a magical place to live in.

Speaker

Per month.

CRAIG NORRIS

So there's always these wonderful little film things which come out so just humans by Eileen, Doreen, Doreen.

DANIEL BROOKS

And yes, so while we were sort of getting prepared to premiere that, I got very prolific and wrote like 4 scripts.

CRAIG NORRIS

And you just took you. It sounds very artistic.

DANIEL BROOKS

Now, mind you, two of those are short, but two of them were bigger.

CRAIG NORRIS

Are these genre pieces? Are they?

DANIEL BROOKS

11 not, not too much, but yes, but one of them in the future is a is a sort of a.

CRAIG NORRIS

NDA's, right? You signed NDA's.

DANIEL BROOKS

A horror comedy priest, but the one coming up, though, is more of a sort of drama comedy adventure.

CRAIG NORRIS

Really great. Movie fantastic. And this is the one you. Guys are currently putting.

Speaker 5

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

Together. So this one was actually only born. Conceptually, about four months ago.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. Alright, so that's a.

DANIEL BROOKS

Very quick, very quick turnover. Yeah, it was written. It took me about. 3 1/2 months to Riot I think something like that. It was pretty. It rolled out pretty easily. For whatever reason, it was just a very easy thing to to put together.

CRAIG NORRIS

So and one of the reasons I'm really. Keen to get you. On is because you are doing everything on a shoestring budget, right? This is a great little insight for listeners out there into how to demystify. Movie making. Yeah, right. You don't need. To have an enormous budget. Yeah, you know, the Bank of Mum and Dad. Not that you didn't.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

No, no, no.

CRAIG NORRIS

Too heavily on that, but your own savings? Yeah, friends. Volunteering this. So I really wanted. To take this. Opportunity to break down for our listeners. How are you getting it done right? What are some of the? Things that's on your mind. What? What is first I? Guess what is pre production?

DANIEL BROOKS

Well, I suppose it would be preparing for the actual film cycle of making the the film but. I suppose. The the so the ground from the ground, like writing it obviously has been done. So from there you can get scripts. That's number one. Yep. But obviously we were sort of thinking about what it was while it was being written. So we were technically planning bits and pieces of how it would be made and what things we'd need for it and who we'd need for it while it was still being written.

CRAIG NORRIS

Has it got a script?

DANIEL BROOKS

Which expedites the process quite.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Extremely. And the way we structured meetings as well. So whenever we bought someone new on board that we've never worked with before instead of just going ohh. Here's a meeting. Here's here's a bunch of paperwork. Here's a bunch of you know, what do you think of the script? All that. Crap. Sorry, that's alright. Crap.

CRAIG NORRIS

Oh, I said it. Now too. Ohh no, I've been very good.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

OK. Lately I've been very good on this.

CRAIG NORRIS

Show no. Well, I don't think we need. Language warning for that one.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I I apologise dear listeners so. No, the the the meetings were were less about the movie and more about just. Hanging out and getting to know them. Seeing if cause cause. I think the way I view it in my mind and I'm not sure how Daniel views it, but in my mind it's. Ohh yeah, I've decided I would like to work with this person now. It's an opportunity to see if they actually want to work. With us, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. So you are bringing? Some new talent on board. Yeah, this time round.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, well, this time we're working with our. The same sound guide that we worked with on just humans and Miley is doing a bunch of work for us as well. So it's the four of us again, plus ilia's younger brother Xavier is starring in.

CRAIG NORRIS

It so this is again I guess one of the first steps is that the network you're working with are kind of primarily a lot of people you're. Like high School, College, university network.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, well, in actually. Well, actually technically not. Mostly like just post high schools. When I wrote most of the people that I work with.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And it it seems to be people that. We didn't really pay attention to, not not in a rude way. I'm not saying we ignored them. I'm just saying we got them on for something really minor for another project and then we we we noticed something about them that we really liked. And so we went. Yes. Good. Let's let's take this further. Let's see what we. Can do with this.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, exactly. And it's a really. Nice thing to be told. I'd imagine for them that. Hey, we'd like you to be involved further. For a couple of bags of chips or. Something cool.

DANIEL BROOKS

You know you and you entice them with. Here's how much money you'll. Be paid and. They and they do anything you want. No. And that most of them are like, well, I get paid and. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Because, yeah, I mean how that that's always a tricky thing to figure out a budget. So. So within that, I mean there, there. People that are hope, volunteer or or as most of it kind of above board.

DANIEL BROOKS

Paid we we try to make it mostly paid and less and less people don't want to be, which is rare but not as rare as you'd. Think. Yeah. Yeah. Like it. Mostly extras often go. Whoa. Why are you paying me for?

CRAIG NORRIS

That's really interesting.

DANIEL BROOKS

That but.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Because we respect your time and the value you as a human being.

CRAIG NORRIS

Exactly. So if you, yeah, if you guys it's a really important moral and economic decision obviously and then it shifts that relationship from I guess them coming in.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

That's that's why we. Pay all.

CRAIG NORRIS

In and being able to.

Speaker

To you know.

CRAIG NORRIS

Volunteer. And within that there might be a sense of, you know, I I don't need to worry too much about this. And just two. Ohh, these guys pay me a bit of money. I'll actually try and step up to.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I mean, it's very important to us that whoever works on our projects. Wants to work on the project and it's not just them being there to. Do us a favour or or get experience to work on their own project. It's it's if you're there where you know we it is our responsibility. Daniel and I's responsibility to make sure that you're emotionally invested as well. And if you're not emotionally invested, then that's a failure on our part.

DANIEL BROOKS

And the emotional investment of everybody involved actually makes the process much funner and easier and easier.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, you've found that three. To previous projects you reported on and.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah. So I think a lot of. A lot of this. Philosophy of how we approach pre production and approach people has come from my previous attempts at making movies. My previous attempts. We're not big love. They were Captain Ahab and the whale.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ohh, right. Metaphysically they were ambitious overreach.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

It was. It was. It was Moby Dick. I I wanted to. Kill the whale at all costs. One of the most important lessons I learned from that era of my failed filmmaking is that the moment you put the project before the people you're working with. Is the moment that the project starts to fall apart.

CRAIG NORRIS

Because I I guess that's part of the myth of filmmaking. You you'll get interviews of some cast on the and obviously this is a different order entirely. But there's Hollywood films. But yeah, we'll talk about the myth where you've got like a William Friedkin or a Kubrick who are just really demanding a lot from their performers, their tyrants.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

They're also probably paying them a lot of. Money and and and and. Like the advantage that film makers like that would have over us. Is the. There is no guarantee that our movies are going to be successful. There's no guarantee that they're going to be viewed by a wide audience. But if someone says Ohh Kubrick wants you, you go ohh that's an opportunity to further my career, OK? I'll. I'll go ahead with it. I'll I'll have to deal with them, but you.

CRAIG NORRIS

Know and I guess that might be lost on someone who's a first time film director thinking. OK, I wanna do something indie. And who's some great film directors? I'm going to copy that kind of toxic model not recognising as you're saying that you know. Well, it's a trade off and also that behaviour really is is, is is quite reprehensive.

Speaker

Yeah. Yeah and.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes, not acceptable.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And it's also you you you look at film makers and you go, oh, I wanna be like that, that one I wanna be like Quentin Tarantino. I wanna be like the Coen brothers. Ohh. And then and then you try and write something that's Cohen brothers and and it's not Cohen brothers but you delude yourself. Into thinking it's Coen brothers and.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's a fan fiction.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

It's a fan. Fix this is.

CRAIG NORRIS

Great. I love fan fictions here on the show. I've done couple. That's another.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Show, but it's a. Bad bang section.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yes, yeah, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

It's not a good fan fiction. It's a it's a horrendous fan.

Speaker

That's right.

CRAIG NORRIS

Fiction. Yeah, it's a self consciously. Yeah. You know, and I guess that's. The difference and if you recognise that no.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And it is entirely self serving, yes, yes. It's it ends up being poorly written. No one really is interested in it, and if you manage to get it off the ground. You get to post. Production and you've got a pile of nothing.

CRAIG NORRIS

So trying to avoid those as early as possible in the stage you guys are at is so important. So again being able to draw upon those previous mistakes or at least having a clearer vision of, OK, I can see how this can get translated on the sets, yes, so. You've got the. Script for this project that. You've been working on Daniel, yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

So I will how do you do the?

CRAIG NORRIS

Script like are you trying to hit? A certain number of pages do. You have a maths model in mind. OK, that many pages we're looking at this long.

DANIEL BROOKS

A film, sort of. I sort of, don't I don't try to do that because it feels very artificial to me. You know, like you look at it as you're going and you kind of think to yourself, I was 60 pages. It's about an hour plus like things that make it longer in between that aren't necessarily dialogue, so maybe it's an hour 10, you know, sort of guesswork like that. Usually it's about a page per minute, but that could be dependent on a lot of. Different things. So how many?

CRAIG NORRIS

People. Do you have enough? Roughly how many pages you've. 72 is that a good number you're feeling?

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, because there's a a few, quite a few of those pages are a paragraph describing something to do, and then nothing.

CRAIG NORRIS

So at this point you've got in the back. Of your head an idea of. How probably 9090 minutes. Right. So we've got the. Script and what's the next step actors so.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Ohh, I think actors and script kind of.

DANIEL BROOKS

That, well, that's what I'm about to say.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Sorry, sorry. Yeah.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5

The the the.

DANIEL BROOKS

In this case anyway, the actors kind of came around while the script was still being written, because we conceptualised what it was I had brought it to a friend of ours who I thought. This made sense for. And then I and then he was like, wow, excellent. And then he got really into the idea and sort of. He was very he was very. He, you. You would almost say he had a lot of creative input into his own sort of role in it I suppose, but he. Yeah, he was very interested in really making it good. So he was very on me about ideas like calling up all.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right.

DANIEL BROOKS

The time and uh. Here's an idea of uh, stuff like that. He's.

CRAIG NORRIS

And do you encourage that? I'd enjoy that.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes, yes, definitely. Obviously there's like limits to that and that's something that he understood as well. So and he was even saying ohh I don't wanna like do too. March, but here's here's an idea and I got excellent, you know, so there's a a good balance to hit there between what you want and how much input they have and.

CRAIG NORRIS

So at this point you've got the script and you've got people you've approached. You are now interacting with the idea of the character they might be.

DANIEL BROOKS

And so this this movie is a a sort of. It's mostly about two, two people, and for the vast majority of it run it's run. It's basically just two people. So we then had to work out who the other character was. And so we sort of searched through our our history of working with extras and all sorts of different people who we'd done stuff with. And we were like. Yeah, that guy. And so we sort of worked around who that would be. We figured out that person met them. They were on board. And he's been highly cooperative, too, so we've ended up going out on, like, fishing trips with both of them and helping them get to know each other so that they can work Better Together and have a bit of, you know. Of a relationship and some banter between them just to improve the quality of their on-screen relationship.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Great, because you don't wanna get this there. Really, you don't wanna get to set and then find out that they have zero chemistry.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah. So because you do. Hear like again? Mainly exposure not working on film is through a behind the scenes Blu-ray spec. So like for for like Band of Brothers I remember they say like. They they put them through.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah, fantastic theories.

CRAIG NORRIS

Boot camps, yeah. For some reason thinking, well, maybe the one interesting one was Steven Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan, where they had everyone except for that demon go through boot camp, so it would.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes, that's fascinating.

CRAIG NORRIS

Develop a bit of resentment towards Matt Damon. Having not had this really tough experience. Yeah, boot camp. So again, that same kind of DNA that you're wanting to. Create some.

DANIEL BROOKS

Some vibes, especially when this movie is so dependent on the relationship between those two characters and you kind of want to have them both be on the same page about what they're trying to achieve. And so when they get out there, they'll instantly kind of know well, this is what our dynamic is and we've been over this and. They sort of go naturally into.

CRAIG NORRIS

It it's quite a commitment though, isn't it? To to to have, I mean, an A luxury maybe to have a bit of time to be able to get some members of the project you're wanting together seeing how they bond or not.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

See this is this is where. I think my side of pre production comes in and that is getting the equipment so whilst Daniel's been doing the heavy lifting on this at the side of things I've been focusing on the equipment and so he doesn't have to think at all about that part of the filmmaking. Process which frees up his time a. Lot to work on that. So I think I think having a partnership. Is so much easier than doing it solo. MMM, now when it comes to freelance work. Freelance commercial work. That's a different story because. You've gotta you've gotta make it commercially viable because you're trying to run a business. I mean, we're we're trying to run a business as well, but I think our business model is way different. To a freelance. Business model. But if you're freelancing and you're doing it by yourself, that kind of makes sense because. You've got to. Make sure that the profits go back to you and not just sort of dilute. Whereas for us, having the creative partnership means. We can really, really optimise. Who does what? Yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Hmm. And at the moment you're focusing on equipment. Yeah. What type of equipment are you juggling at the moment? Well, recently, what have you been?

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Well, I I've basically decided on all of it. Today this morning. It after right? After weeks, months of researching and and hitting my head against the wall, I've come up with the equipment. So it was. A lot of the little things that just quality of life, things for for when you're on set. And and OK. Admittedly, this is where filmmaking can start to get a little expensive. But you don't need any of this stuff when you're when you're first starting out, when you're first. When you make your first movie going for this sort of equipment, this is this is me. Going yes, I've. I'm happy with the progress I'm making. I can.

DANIEL BROOKS

Like you're plateauing with the skill level of the current. Equipment you need to.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah, yeah, the.

DANIEL BROOKS

Sort of.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah, I I need to. I need to improve my equipment because I'm I've outgrown the current equipment that I've got. So. The one of the things is a. I I come in from a both a feedback. And anticipating problems, sort of. Point of view. So when I say feedback I mean. Simon, for example, he.

DANIEL BROOKS

Who was our audio sound guy?

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah. OK. So he he mentioned that. There were problems. With the microphones that we were using and he. He sort of. Got me to listen to the audio and go see and and try to figure out what was going on. And and I went because I I could tell that ohh yes, the quality is a bit. There's something a bit off about this. And then so I had to then. Go right well. Clearly the microphones we're using aren't good enough. I mean the boom. Like was good enough, but the Radio Max were right, so I then had to go, right? Well, why aren't these? Why? What is causing these to not be good? So I had to research. The problems with the with. The radio mics that we're.

CRAIG NORRIS

Using because when you first got them, you've done some research. Yes, some got it. And thought this should. Work. Yeah. And it wasn't until yeah. Post production going through and then time and the other guy is saying, look, it's just not doing what we'd hoped.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah. And then and then him educating me in in some other more technical aspects of of audio as well. And and so. It turns out that the radio mics so that the transmitters and.

CRAIG NORRIS

The receivers and these are mics people. You know these would. Be like you've got a a scene with an actor on a seat and your your camera off like a few metres away and this is a mic which is like in their jacket or a battery pack in their jacket and. A kind of cable going to a mic that's.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah. So, OK, So what we were using are these the GoPro to radio mics, fantastic microphone, not not having a go at at Rd at all with these because they are really, really good microphones. UM.

Speaker

They're, they're.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Little cubes that stick in and they've got their own built in microphone, but they've also got a little thing to put lavalier microphones with and. And that's the little wire that you're talking about. Yes. And so it turns out that although there are some limitations with that system. I I'm confident Simon can work his way around those. They're not. They're not too challenging. The alternative is I fork out and and they're another 2003 $1000. So yeah.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

So you you you think we? The current tech you've got for those wireless can.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Can work, but I need the. I need good lavalier mics to go with them.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right, so you needed to upgrade that, yes.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

So that part's been upgraded and then the recorder I go I put into well. Sorry, I'm OK for everyone listening. I'm trying to condense one of the messiest aspects of filmmaking from an equipment point of view, and that is the audio equipment because unlike unlike, say. Cameras with Sony? They've got. Ohh Yep. This these are the lenses that go with Sony. This is the this is the software you use with Sony and and you know there's this whole pipeline with with the technology lights it doesn't matter because as long as they.

DANIEL BROOKS

Do the thing that.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Do the thing they're supposed to do they work audio however, it's ohh. No, no, no. So you need Sennheiser lavalier mics. You can get away with the GoPro two radio micro mics you you can use a Tascam recorder but I'm using a. I forget that pre pre mix three or something.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's it's just this and then trying to troubleshoot. How each one of those interact with each other? I like it is. Where's a good source of information? Is it going to a a face and face? Right? Reddit. There is the.

Speaker

There is none.

CRAIG NORRIS

Bing AI chat.

Speaker 5

That's what I do.

Speaker

That there, there.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Is no good source of information for this. OK. It's something that you just. Have to you just have to figure it out.

Speaker 5

Right, they're packed.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

By yourself now this now. I'm sorry, people. This is the most frustrating part of filmmaking to get. Absolutely. Right. But if you want to get this standard that I want to get to, you have to go through. This, but if you. Want if you're not aiming for this standard, then you don't have to stress. Too much about it?

CRAIG NORRIS

So I guess the other way and again in behind the scenes movie things you see where they talk about lip syncing afterwards, right? You just get your your actors in a booth and. They watch the.

Speaker 5

Film and they're they're all the scene and they they try and match. Yeah, well.

CRAIG NORRIS

Is that? Good. Is that difficult? It seems, really. Difficult to do. I know when I've had. To queue up audio.

DANIEL BROOKS

I I don't, I don't think anyone could have ever have done it and it. What the obvious to me.

CRAIG NORRIS

Slightly out.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah, I think the only way you could get away with that is if you had an actor who had. Extremely consistent line delivery, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's one of the. Challenges. If you're looking at an indie. Film. Yeah, with people who aren't actors or some people who are are kind of beginner actors. Yeah, it. Yeah, it's. It's just asking too much. Yeah. So then yeah, it is really important to get right. Yes, on location on the day or else you can't really have anything. Previous pieces you've worked on when the audio hasn't worked, but you really want that, see what what? What are your choices? Right. So you still. Keep the visual. Component as much as you can and then.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

You you try, but there have been occasions where we've had to gut entire scenes and replace them with the worst take because. The audio was.

CRAIG NORRIS

Rubbish, right? So you know. When you've got the finished film and you hit that scene, there's a better. Example of that scene or it was a better take of that scene, but no one can see. And it's like, yeah, OK.

DANIEL BROOKS

But we could use this because, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I mean. There are some. Phenomenal performances that no one will ever see because the audio was terrible and that's. Not the fault of. The person recording the audio. Sometimes these things happen, especially when you're filming outside.

DANIEL BROOKS

Ohh yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, wins. The actor suddenly moves their arm against.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes. Yeah. And I suppose that's another reason that getting the sound right on this movie is particularly.

CRAIG NORRIS

Their the laws.

DANIEL BROOKS

Important because it will mostly be outside.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And to that end, we have 5 microphones going into this.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, right. So is one way to to solve that. To have backups like a. Lot of.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Likes. So, OK, so you're probably going to get the best quality microphone audio.

Speaker 5

Right.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Go from the shotgun mic.

CRAIG NORRIS

And people that don't know a. Shotgun Mic is that.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

The the the long. Yeah, it's usually.

CRAIG NORRIS

Holding it slightly off screen. Huge, big kind of sausage seats.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah. Yep. And it's a directional microphone and then there will be 4 lavalier mics which will be hooked up to two radio transmitters.

CRAIG NORRIS

And the letter makes for those who were talking about dedicated didn't need a jacket or something or fold in the.

Speaker

Or or or.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

If you want to get creative, just somewhere. In the scene, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly, yes.

CRAIG NORRIS

So the flower pots the.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Book. So I want to give Simon all the options to be able to mix up the actors or put the microphone on something in the scene behind something in the scene. Now, sorry to hijack. The conversation here, but I'm really I'm getting really excited about. Audio equipment even. I I've been.

CRAIG NORRIS

This is literally radio, so it is audio.

Speaker

Perfect.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Sorry I I am not an audio engineer. I have no real education in. Audio it's just. Trying to understand it from professionals points of view so. You can get really creative with audio, so a a lot of indie film makers. They sort of relegate the sound person to just sit in the corner, hold the microphone. And nothing wrong with that. You can go out and get some $20. Lav mics lavalier mikes so sorry, I'm going a bit text. I'm going into tech talk here. You you can get a a couple of $20 LAV mics, hook them up to your phone.

CRAIG NORRIS

Mike, that's good.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And and either hook either mic up your actors or or plant the microphone which is. Where you put. It put the microphone behind a prop somewhere and so. There's a lot. Potential for some really interesting creative problem solving from the sound recorders point of view. Which is not something that I've seen used a lot in a lot of indie film makers film. A lot of indie films, sorry, a lot of indie films that I've. Been involved with. Opportunity for that creativity has sort of been stripped away from the audio recorders.

CRAIG NORRIS

Because as you're saying, they usually just sit to the side in in the film piece and kind of largely forgotten about as long as it's OK you getting sound. Yes. Alright, let's do.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

It. Yes, exactly. It's you're getting sound. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm recording. Yeah. Good. Excellent, cool. Whatever. Yeah, because it it's all about what it looks like. And and I think it's it's a shame because. When you are directing something. And you you can see what it looks like. You can't hear what it looks like. So I I guess, like a, a lizard. Part of your brain is going. Ohh. Well, I can't hear it. It must be good because I haven't had someone come up to me and say it was bad and I haven't had any. Feedback to say it's bad, it's good.

DANIEL BROOKS

Which is why I think we really lucked out with our sound person because he is phenomenal.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

He's very switched on, yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

And he knows his noise. He knows noise.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

He's he. He's a real. Audio nerd.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah. And that's what you need. Yeah, particularly in indie film, where everyone's kind of learning on the job. It's very deep end kind of learning curve. And yeah, if you get someone that just loves.

DANIEL BROOKS

You always need.

Speaker 5

It then it's.

CRAIG NORRIS

Going to push through that paint.

DANIEL BROOKS

The person who fits a role to kind of be a nerd for that role, and if they are, then your energy is all sort of converge on making something pretty good, yes.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

2 two more aspects of of equipment. Sorry everybody, sorry. So this is perfect so. We had to figure out how to capture actors in a moving car now. You might. Here's a lesson for every. So you might look at that and go, oh, that's impossible. Ohh, that's so difficult.

CRAIG NORRIS

Because you'd have this flow. Of sound pollution, right? You'd have the engine sound the.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

It it's it's that. But also how how do we how do we actually how do we actually?

DANIEL BROOKS

Where does the camera go?

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Where does the camera go with the vaccines are?

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah. How does? That you.

CRAIG NORRIS

See how is it capturing anything? Ohh.

Speaker

On the dance. Yeah. So so.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I've gone from the feedback. Part of the equation, which is what Simon has told me over. Over the course of making these movies and I've gone OK, so this is what I have to do. With that information now it's. Now it's a simple Google or sorry search engine of your choice or video streaming service of your choice. You just type in how do I mount a camera onto a car? Yes. And and there you there you have it. What?

CRAIG NORRIS

Are the results you get? I mean you get some. Kind of an immediate. Good ones. Then you get some Indian ones.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Ohh OK. How to mount a camera on to a car? On a budget.

CRAIG NORRIS

And but yes on.

Speaker 5

The budget keyboard.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah. And then.

CRAIG NORRIS

What do?

Speaker 5

You get.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

You you get, you get a couple of options.

CRAIG NORRIS

Go down to Bunnings, get some PVC.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

No, no, no, it's it's, it's a little bit more than that, but essentially someone's already come up with this solution. Someones designed a solution to this.

DANIEL BROOKS

Someones designed it.

CRAIG NORRIS

Problem and what? Well, so. You've done this already or you. You're in this pre production stage, so you.

Speaker 5

We've we've got months.

CRAIG NORRIS

Think. OK, well, we've got. I've bought it. Yeah. We've bought it right, so there's a bit.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Of kit. Yeah, I'm waiting for it to come into the mail.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. So. Is it? Is it strap onto the car? Is it rubber bands? No, it's it's.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

33 suction cups. That suction onto the car.

CRAIG NORRIS

External part of the car, like the.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yes, yeah. And then some straps. Oops. Sorry. And then some straps that anchored in properly.

CRAIG NORRIS

Door or something? Ohh good yeah, because I've used suction cups for. My holding my mobile phone and. It'll fall off, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

These these ones have like a. Little button that you press that that.

CRAIG NORRIS

So really good quality. Yeah. And then. Right until.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I you know, it's it's weird. Because I have to keep relearning this lesson. How do you do this on a budget? That's all you have to do? How do you blah on a budget? Blah. Done. But I keep having to relearn this lesson because for so long. I I'm racking my brain with how do how do we do this? How do we do that? But the the answers.

CRAIG NORRIS

Already out there, there is a collective creative community that, yeah, particularly with video. Yeah, it's it's likely you're right. Because you'll see a demonstration.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Exactly, exactly. And then one final thing.

CRAIG NORRIS

Of this, yes, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

So a problem that I and and I'll wrap this up because I I I know I I've taken up quite a lot of the. The the A lot. Of time. OK, I know.

Speaker

8/2.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I'm sorry, everybody, I'm sorry and. I'm sorry for being sorry.

CRAIG NORRIS

It is fascinating, though it is a fascinating question.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

So it's a good point and so. So on. Another shoot I think it was just humans. I'm not entirely sure I had to choose between the ND philtre and the hood for the camera. So an ND philtre is something that blocks out UV light so you protect the sensor. And I've got a variable ND philtre so it's. Sunglasses for your camera. And I can't mount the cameras. Onto it.

CRAIG NORRIS

The hood is kind of something that.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Stops light, light, light. Sort of shining directly.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, that's that, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Into the to the West.

CRAIG NORRIS

So it's got baseball cap that you, sorry. That's a bad.

Speaker

Yes. Yeah. No.

CRAIG NORRIS

Enough, but a plastic thing that goes, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

No, I. I can't mount that I can't mount that. Onto the lens. Whilst I've got the NBA. That's wrong, but again, there's a solution to this.

CRAIG NORRIS

And thank goodness you're searching for it. Exactly so. Because these visible women aren't. Cheap and when they don't fit together, you're like, well, I don't wanna. Yeah, buy youth stuff. I mean, surely.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

So you go camera rig on a budget. 4 model camera. Done and it shows you what you could use and I.

CRAIG NORRIS

Won't and and and I think that's. Great, because it is showing again, demystifying movie, making you. Know it is just.

Speaker 5

A case of.

CRAIG NORRIS

Searching on the Internet sometimes. Yeah, if you can't reject it and it does make people able to do something that that previously, it would just be a gated community. Ohh yeah, people who've worked professionally.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And some of these solutions if you're. On a real budget. You can just get a piece of cardboard and put it over the camera. Yeah, like a lot of what I'm doing is quality of life things.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, yeah, because it can be reused. It's fit for purpose, yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Yeah, exactly. No, I think that's that's basically the equipment.

CRAIG NORRIS

The tech that's.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

The that's the tech.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's exciting about the car, so the cars. Obviously, when you were strip riding you. Thought OK, it's. Gonna. It's gonna be this great seeing a car. Yeah, and that triggered this whole we've not filmed. A car? No. So what are?

Speaker

For our.

DANIEL BROOKS

We doing? Yeah. No, the the car is very prominent aspect of the movie. So it's a very. The thing we have to get sort of, right?

CRAIG NORRIS

I suppose, and it's probably like, are we talking about like there are famous cars? Of course. There's there's knight riders, car kits. There's the Duke of Hazzard car.

DANIEL BROOKS

I I would hope I would hope that this car ends up famous. I said that to the guy I bought it from that I. Would make it. Famous. So yeah, I we we we bought one especially for it initially we were looking for a.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ohh right, you've. Had to. That's a real commitment. Convertible. Ohh wow. Yeah, styles.

DANIEL BROOKS

Because the original deal was that me and Edward and our lead actor are actually gonna split three ways. Paying for the car. And that meant that he, the lead actor, would end up owning it at the end because he doesn't have a car. And so it was. It was also an exercise in.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right.

DANIEL BROOKS

Getting a car.

CRAIG NORRIS

For him, yes. So his pay would be.

DANIEL BROOKS

As a.

Speaker 1

The car will.

DANIEL BROOKS

No, he'd get extra stuff. He'd get equity and all this other stuff, but he was also gonna get a car out of it. So he was very excited about that, but.

CRAIG NORRIS

OK.

DANIEL BROOKS

My standards for What Car we wanted sort of changed as I was writing the script. And that sort of didn't line up very well with what kind of car he wanted. And so I ended up buying a 1992 Corolla.

CRAIG NORRIS

OK, 92 Corolla yeah idea.

Speaker

Of one of those.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yep, it is it. It is a nice sub, it's. Solid car. I like it. Yeah, but I I wanted something a bit more.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's a client.

DANIEL BROOKS

OK. Yeah. And he he bit a bit box, a bit boxier and all that sort of stuff and he really wanted a a 90, some kind of 90 Saab or a or a Ford Capri. And I was like.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's a Dutch challenger.

DANIEL BROOKS

Well, we keep finding them, but they're all they've either all got something wrong with them or they're too expensive or.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Something catastrophically wrong with them.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes. So we went and looked at one here and I. It was an old 2000 model Saab that had a cracked firewall.

CRAIG NORRIS

And firewall. That's not the computer firewall. No stops virus is getting.

DANIEL BROOKS

It's it's the. It's the part. From my understanding, it's the wall between the the steering wheel section and the dash and the engine and.

Speaker 5

Infected. This is.

DANIEL BROOKS

Ohh and the and this particular model had this issue. Has always had this issue and so the mechanic that we got to look at it and do a pre. Inspection on it. Happened to have trained using this model of car and so he went straight for that and went Oh yeah, no, don't do it because it's it's a pretty it pretty catastrophic failure if that was the case, if we we've gotten.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

To you. That one? It was a potentially. Fatal defect, right well.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, not not not good, but we have.

CRAIG NORRIS

There you go. So always get a mechanic to have. A look, yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

Now granted the. One we did by has an issue, but it's way easier to fix and it's fixed. So that's all.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right. Excellent, right.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

I believe it's the starter motor.

DANIEL BROOKS

Pretty much, yeah. Seems important. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, the only The thing is, it just needs the part. Needs replacing. OK, so it's just a part that needs to be replaced and then it'll be just totally fine.

CRAIG NORRIS

So it's an. 82 Toyota Corolla 9290. Two. Yeah, 82 would be a. Classic. Well 90.

DANIEL BROOKS

Ohh that they would be expensive. You too? Yeah, I I think I'm on the cusp of it being expensive.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

There would be two.

CRAIG NORRIS

Ah, yeah. Well. Yeah, I guess there is that speculation market for cars as they move out of a kind. Of nostalgic, groaning kind of so kind.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, yeah.

CRAIG NORRIS

Of Oh yeah, yeah, that, that's. That's general. So 92 Toyota Corolla is gonna feature in this car. You're gonna get little Matchbox collectibles.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, other than that.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Ohh that's an idea.

DANIEL BROOKS

It's going to be a very famous car. I won't end up keeping it, mind you. I'm gonna so it's gonna. Happen to. I'll probably sell. It to somebody and I've already movie. Seen in as seen. And I've already got someone. A friend of mine from Sydney, who who wants to buy it so he's keen. Perfect. But yeah.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And the sale of that car will go towards.

DANIEL BROOKS

Something future probably our our. Horror comedy in the future, but I'm still more about the this film. It's the core. Principle of it was inspired by something that happened to me. Few months ago or just before I started writing it, probably about a week before. I had gone home from work. And I was just relaxing. And then I get a call from one of my work colleagues who is about 8 years younger than me. And I'm like, what do you want? And he goes, oh, well. And the the two of them are standing there at the same age. And he's like, oh, my, what the other guy's car are not started. And I was like, oh, bummer, he goes. Well, I know you got jumper cables. Do you want to come down and help us? I live pretty close to work good and I was like, alright, sure, I'll come down. And do that, but they weren't like. They weren't distorted by this situation. They thought it was really funny and they were just standing there having a giggle. And they told they told me a story about something that had happened that I was like. Wow. So much energy.

CRAIG NORRIS

It's pretty calm and chill and what would normally. Be very irritating.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, yeah, they just they didn't care so long as I so long as I helped them fix it, it didn't matter. And then they're off on their merry way. And I was just like, ohh to to have that kind of outlook. But I probably would have had at the time when I was 19. But that that thought that got me thinking about. Well, isn't it interesting the differences between someone who was in their late 20s and someone who's like, just turned 20? There's a there's a maturity sort of gap there that I was not reticent to understand until I was almost until I was 27 now. And that got me thinking about potential ideas for that. And I I came up with a little short that was based on that interaction that I'd had. But then I thought of all of it's a whole movie where you get someone who's 28 and someone who's 20 to interact with each other throughout the whole thing. And it's sort of about that dynamic and that's where the name of the movie comes from. It's called 20. 28 right. Not the.

CRAIG NORRIS

Not the year, but the ages as a kind of generation gap kind of. And I guess it is a period of time of yeah rapid growth.

DANIEL BROOKS

That the age.

Speaker 5

Of the people.

CRAIG NORRIS

I mean, you're you're you're often doing a lot of rites.

DANIEL BROOKS

Of passage, yes.

CRAIG NORRIS

At that moment, like you, you may have left home for the first time in your 20. For serious job first computer relationship. There can be a lot of firsts, yeah.

DANIEL BROOKS

Exactly it's.

CRAIG NORRIS

That you're encountering.

DANIEL BROOKS

And and so on that. What what? How do you compare someone who has had all those firsts and had them all gone wrong to someone who hasn't had any of those firsts? And that that's an interesting dynamic that you can play on for a whole script.

CRAIG NORRIS

Yeah, it's an interesting age. Odd.

DANIEL BROOKS

Couple. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's sort of an odd couple sort of movie about them being sort of feisty at each other first, but then sort of coming together as throughout the course of the. Film no, I. I've gotten a few compliments on the script. People think it's pretty good. Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, it's it's pretty cool.

CRAIG NORRIS

This is great news.

DANIEL BROOKS

But yes. What's good about it, though, is that they get.

CRAIG NORRIS

Lost in the Bush right? Bush lamb adventure.

DANIEL BROOKS

Which means, which means that the vast majority of the movie takes place in the Bush, which which makes it easier to organise locations, because then you've got perhaps one location for a big section of it, and then the beginning and end of the movie are a bit more complicated.

CRAIG NORRIS

Right.

DANIEL BROOKS

Because I guess the start of the movie sort of rapid fire through a bunch of different locations we'll need and all that. Sort of stuff. Then the vast majority of the middle of the movie is just them in the wilderness. That was easy because we know a few people who have large properties, who we can just go on there and do whatever.

CRAIG NORRIS

We like because it can be challenging finding locations so.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And this is where it becomes important to make friends, yes.

DANIEL BROOKS

And so if you can make friends, you expedite the process.

CRAIG NORRIS

Because it can be a real headache. Trying to get permissions and forms.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

And and this is how community works. Communities work when people become friends, and they offer to help each other. Yeah. When you go into making films or when you go into any endeavour and you're not there to make friends, you end up getting burned a lot. I speak from experience. Right, I was not. There to make friends. I was there to achieve my ambition of becoming a big filmmaker. Which is total nonsense. Because because if. If I haven't even. Done the groundwork. I've even bothering. To understand who I'm working with. Being friends with the people I work with. Or at least being friendly with them. Then I don't deserve any any form of success. Umm, the only reason I would ever deserve success from this is because I've helped uplift people along the way. That's how I.

CRAIG NORRIS

Say it, and wonderfully healthy, you know, too sadly.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

No, no, Craig, no doctor Craig.

CRAIG NORRIS

Bring this to an end. We have K pop unlimited coming up next, but no, it has been fantastic to have you guys on Edward Daniel.

DANIEL BROOKS

There's just so much to go over.

CRAIG NORRIS

As the project continues to evolve, it would be fantastic to draw upon those. Problem solving because I'm sure everyone again has always had this idea of Gee, it would be great to do something or it.

DANIEL BROOKS

Looks too difficult, yes. If anyone wants to be involved, we are filming in January and February. Excellent. Anyone wants to be an extra or have some kind of part. Welcome to ask.

CRAIG NORRIS

How can people? Find out more about the work you're.

DANIEL BROOKS

Doing by going to my face.

Speaker

OK.

DANIEL BROOKS

Sound makes me sound sound elderly, I know.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

We're film makers Doctor Craig not. Not PR people. We don't know anything about that.

CRAIG NORRIS

So very grassroots though, great.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah. So it's so it's Daniel Brooks, Brooks without an E so BR double OKS.

CRAIG NORRIS

Just just keeping it real. Daniel Brooks. On Facebook, yes. So I'll put some of those links in the show notes, which you can find on media motherships, YouTube and Facebook page as well as on edgeradio.org dot AU. Great. So people can find. Out more about. That so. So you're looking for extras in January, February?

DANIEL BROOKS

Yeah, January. There will be. If if anyone wanted to get more information. I don't have the dates on me, but I can so we can sort that out in the future. It is a couple months away.

CRAIG NORRIS

Had a faithful man. Exiles. Yeah, well, post Christmas, so that's forever. Excellent. Alright. Well look, I I'm wishing you guys all the best. On what will certainly be another fantastic little piece of work and keep us informed on the show and yeah, we'll, we'll definitely have you back as you hit. Yes, there's there's other mile. What's the next milestone coming? So it would be that extras and starting to films. So that would be.

DANIEL BROOKS

That would be excellent. Well, so the next milestone is I want to pre organise who's doing our music so we're not doing it in post production. So having it developed while we're.

CRAIG NORRIS

Music, yeah.

DANIEL BROOKS

While we're doing it at the moment and I've got lots of ideas and a lot of connections now with music. So that's alright.

CRAIG NORRIS

Great. And these are connections you've developed from previous? Projects you've worked on.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yep. And it just so happens that our sound guys in three different.

CRAIG NORRIS

Hands excellent. Yeah. You put yourself out there, start developing a network. It's very exciting to hear how this is coming together and building on previous success and lessons learned. Yes. Well, Daniel, thank you again.

EDWARD WILLIAMS

Thank you for. Having us like.

DANIEL BROOKS

Yes, thank you very much, Doctor Craig.

CRAIG NORRIS

And keep listening to Edge Radio coming up next. Is K pop unlimited with?

Speaker 5

DJ CJ and DJ TJ.






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