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  • Writer's pictureCraig Norris

The Power and Peril of K-pop Cultural Intermediaries: An Interview with Taylor Lidstone.




K-Pop Intermediaries as imagined by Bing AI.

Summary:

What are cultural intermediaries and how do they influence the tastes and preferences of the public? And how do K-pop fans act as cultural intermediaries by creating and sharing content, translating and explaining K-pop culture, and advocating for their favourite artists? Craig Norris talks with Taylor Lidstone about his recently completed Honours research project titled 'Cultural Intermediaries in K-Pop' at the The Media School, University of Tasmania.

The episode first aired on Edge Radio 99.3FM, Thu 19 Nov 2020.



Transcript

(This transcript was generated by an AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you have questions about any of the information found here, please reach out to us at: mediamothership993fm at gmail.com)

Speaker 1

There is nothing wrong with your radio.

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Do not attempt to adjust the volume. We are controlling the broadcast. For the next hour, we will control all that you hear.

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You are about to experience the knowledge and insights of the media mothership.

Speaker 2

You're about to listen to a blast from the past AR rare gem dug up from the media mothership archives. This episode goes by the shows launch name media tackle, the original air date is in the show notes. But for now, just sit back and enjoy this vintage treat.

Dr Craig

You're listening to media tackle, tackling big ideas through analysing media and pop culture, with Craig Norris, PhD. Hey, this is edge radio. That was everything is fine by Lt and this is. Tackle media tackle media tackle I like the imagery of. The shows name media tackle. Who was actually coined by my son? Who is a mad fisherman and was was was thinking of fishing and said just call it put tackle in it. So yes, we have. We have this tackle I did, but I when I when I think of tackle, I do think even though I'm not a sports person. I do think about a rugby scrimmage and a tackle and you know metaphorically, of course, tackling the media rather than the ball. What do you think when you hear a?

Lord Taylor

Media tackle? Yeah, I I I did think it was sort of going to be sporting sort of.

Dr Craig

OK, good, that's what I. Wanted not all right, so you did have a sporting not fishing. I mean, I could do fishing.

Lord Taylor

And fishing works.

Dr Craig

OK. But we're not doing fishing. This is all about the media part of the tackle media tackle. So here we're going to be looking at our ideas and projects and things that are kind of media or media adjacent. Or everything in and around the world of media people that want media. I can be a conduit and part of media to to spread the word. So let's, I guess let's get down to the business, the the. So the inaugural show. So what we're what I've brought in, I've had the pleasure bringing in is, is, is Taylor who has a has a show himself here on Edge Radio KPOP reverse which we'll talk about a bit later. But where I'm. Really keen to to talk a little bit to you now is your thesis project. A lot of people out there might not. You know what a thesis is, so. Do you want to tell people what a thesis is?

Lord Taylor

Well, basically a thesis is something that you do after your degree for. No reason, no.

Dr Craig

Reason for it?

Lord Taylor

For sort of like research, getting into research more.

Dr Craig

Yeah. So typically at the point of students going to be doing a thesis, it's their fourth year of studies at the universities. So they've usually completed their undergraduate studies and then they can do what's called an honours year where they get to focus on a research project, right? So they get to choose a project. So you did your project in the the media school here at the University of. Tasmania yes I did. And, uh, full actually disclosure. I was involved a little bit in your project at the start, right?

Lord Taylor

Yes, you were as my sister.

Dr Craig

The supervisor. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I knew about this project from and I really wanted to see how it completed. So your project title, which I I guess is is the great place to start. Is is cultural? Intermediaries in Kpop so talk to me a bit through this idea of cultural intermediaries in KPOP. What was the project about?

Lord Taylor

Well, first of all, it started on sort of trying to define what cultural intermediaries exactly was. So there was a bit of trouble around that because there is a plethora of different. Researchers putting what they think the cultural media intermediary. And so it was just trying to sort through a whole tonne of research into creating something that would fit within the sort of schema of KPOP.

Dr Craig

So an intermediary is someone that is in between things, right? So they're they're kind of. We can think of it like as a translator or a kind of someone that's circulating ideas. So.

Lord Taylor

Your project was.

Dr Craig

Based on on key key pop Korean popular music as its key study, and then you were looking at these these intermediaries, these people that are then. Kind of circulating or or kind of between. Us like here. Here we are in Tassie. You're doing this project in Tasmania and to my knowledge there's no K pop band here. There's K pop music. Here. Yeah, there's a karaoke place here. Maybe plural. I think there might. Be two, I think.

Lord Taylor

Let me tell you, yeah.

Dr Craig

So. So there's certainly spaces where people can encounter. Hip hop, but it does require a little bit of explanation to some people, right? So I guess I guess your project is looking at those people that explain and popularise K pop. Yes, around the world. So which you are one of them yourself, of course. You yourself are a walking, talking, living intermediary intermediary. You should put that on your CV cultural intermediary of K pop music. So OK, so there you are. You're doing your projects so it takes a year to complete. And you did a. How did you? What was your method?

Lord Taylor

For your project, well, my method was to basically create a. What's it called? A survey. Create a survey and put it out into the world and then see what people said and. What I was looking for was how people interacted with cultural intermediaries, how people acted as cultural intermediaries, cause there is a big difference between cultural intermediaries and fan labour. So people that engage in fan labour can just be anybody in the public. People that are cultural intermediaries have to be. They need to have a sense of professionalism about it, so someone who talks on the radio about Kaufhof like me is a cultural intermediary.

Dr Craig

So they're yeah, cause they're also explaining Contextualising advocating their their interest, their cultural interest. Right. So it could be. Food, right. So you know, while I don't like his food, you could think of Jamie Oliver as a cultural intermediary. Like those shows, he does where he tries to get British people to eat better. Food, right? So he's this person that's translating better food. To people don't eat better food and he's an intermediate, right? He's a middle ground space. So and how did that go? Did you? So you did the survey? You got a couple of. People replying to it. Yeah. How did that how? Did that go?

Lord Taylor

I don't really know what.

Dr Craig

To say you you you had some concluded people I guess did you did you find that? You know being and performing the cultural intermediary role met your expectations. Given that you are a cultural intermediary yourself.

Lord Taylor

Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people in trade and cultural intermediaries all the time in anything. Stop playing song.

Speaker

Yeah. Well, we'll go into a song.

Dr Craig

While you think about that aren't OK. And you're listening here to. Edge radio. This is a media tackle. Thanks. Alright, so you're listening to Edge radio. This is media tackle. I'm Craig Norris, PhD. Just drop the drop the knowledge and we listened there to never Chang. No, I think that should be changed. Never change by snowy band. And then we had no nightmare by 1 thrix point. Never. Pretty cool, yeah. We're talking about music, but not the music that you're listening to. We're we're talking about K pop music, and we're coming out of. We were talking a little bit about your survey. UM, but during the? Music break? You told me some theories or. That you've you've. Further developed this theory of the cultural intermediary further, which is that's fascinating. So. So let's talk about that.

Lord Taylor

A bit further. OK, so as I mentioned previously, there has been heaps of heaps and heaps of theories about cultural into. Theories and I have sort of developed my own which was to separate cultural intermediaries into two sort of separate areas, primary cultural intermediaries and secondary cultural intermediaries. Primary ones are sort of more part of the industrial process. They can be part of the. Company themselves as well, but they have a very important aspect of being able to. Shape the tastes of the public, whereas secondary cultures and intermediaries are ones that are more like me, which are just fans who are very interested in something and then sort of develop a a, a product sort of as well.

Dr Craig

And and I guess what we're looking here specifically are examples where you're trying to introduce something. Like a a new product or a new experience. France or a new thing into the public? Or your friends. Right. So the first category you you mentioned the primary one is kind of industry based. So certainly I know with with Japanese popular culture monger and anime in Australia, there's there's companies like Mad Men and a team, and that would have as their agenda. This idea that they're buy fans for fans and they're explaining, you know, manga and anime while they're also selling it. And so the idea is, yeah, they're, they're they're cultural intermediaries because they're also explaining some of the culture around it. But they're they're they're driven by the dollar still, right. So it's got to make financial sense. Whereas you know like the local fan clubs here from anger and anime, the the icon guys who do the Anime Island convention and. So forth would. Be that secondary category where they're still explaining and kind of proselytising. It's very kind of missionary type vibes and what we're. Talking about basically. Here we go. We're talking about the church system in a way. Right. So. So the the spread of Catholicism. Similarly, it operates in this way, right? You have evangelists who might be kind of ordained by the church, right? They're your primary cultural intermediaries who would be endorsed, and they've got the the kind of expectations and performance management indexes of the church issue and they use them. And and then I'm kind of thinking here of like, the classic kind of. What do we think of mediaeval or Renaissance period, where you have that kind of conquistadors and and the missionaries rights and you have those people, right who are spreading the word of of the Bible? Right. But then you have these secondary cultural intermediaries who might be, you know, if we use the language of the 18th century, you know, natives. Who have been converted into Christianity, who are then telling their parents and their kids, hey, you should also get on board with this Christianity. And they would be secondary culture intermediaries. From your your definition. Well, is that interesting? Yeah, we've, we've busted that wide open. So it's probably what's interesting here for me though, is that you know that that's a concept. Of course that could be applied superficially. I mean, if there's more depth, but it does actually. It is interesting that it can be applied to explain popular culture right through popular culture. Here we're just talking about Kpop.

Speaker

But potentially it.

Dr Craig

Could be an entry point to talk also about religious conversion. Not that we're doing projects on religious conversion. But it is interesting how suddenly you realise, wow, that mechanics seems a little similar to the chemic mechanics, and I guess part of that was trying to explain how do I explain this system in a way which is if you're not into K pop and pop culture. So in your experience of K pop. Do you? Do you think that there are people that behave like, you know, like are there? Like one of the really interesting things about the spirit of of any religion is that point at which you have the kind of heretics and heresy and the the Inquisition breaks out, right? So does that work in this space as well like you? Have these debates, which suddenly. Occur where people are saying you know you're wrong. You've got the wrong fandom, or you're supporting this key pop. Artist and they're now blacklisted. They've now transgressed and you have to repent. Your Phantom of does that happen in K Pop?

Lord Taylor

Ohh a lot it it is probably one of the most toxic fandoms I've ever experienced, really, and that has only gotten worse with the rise in international.

Dr Craig

Fans as well, but the music's so, you know, bubbly. If I think of K pop, I think kind of bubbly teen girls singing kind of Kylie Minogue type songs. I mean this dates me a bit but Kylie Minogue is what was it she got award recently as being the artist that sells albums every year or something that chart. And she's beating The Beatles. Or she's up there equivalent with The Beatles and other luminaries. So I think of Kylie Minogue when I think of that kind of pop poppy singer, but they're kind of bands and they're poppy and they're bubbly. But you're seeing The Phantoms toxic.

Lord Taylor

It is. It is. There there, there's some some it's toxic.

Dr Craig

Or some of the Phantom I don't see.

Lord Taylor

Of course, there's always good parts and bad parts of anything, but it's. Just in terms of Inter fan conflict, is is quite prevalent. What's?

Dr Craig

The big scandal that's breaking out at the moment. Is there something that's tearing the fandom apart leading into Christmas 2020?

Lord Taylor

There's, there's always something going on, but at the moment. They've just released so. Actually this is to do with my project as well. I wrote about produce 101 which is a show over there which is sort of sort of like you know, Australian Idol sort of something like that where you've got people that go in, but they're trainees from different companies and they end up. And they're trying to they compete against each other for a chance to debut as a group.

Dr Craig

So a bit like Australian Idol or.

Lord Taylor

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they debut as a group, so there's 11. But it's exactly like that otherwise. And the fellow that is in that was the director and the producer as well.

Dr Craig

How much sugar?

Lord Taylor

Got caught. Sort of manipulating the ranking.

Dr Craig

Right, so totally scamming the system. They were corrupt and they were taking bribes or something and they were rigging it so that that this one boy band or girl band. What was it, girl? Girl band One, even though they. Didn't get the votes or. Something. Yeah, it's like the. I was going to be topical, talk about the American. Election, but let's just avoid. Any discussions that? So is that what happened? The vote got.

Lord Taylor

Rigged. Yeah, they the votes got rigged, and they've just released. I think it was two days ago. All of the people. That would have gotten in.

Dr Craig

So what happened? So they? They just released 2 days.

Lord Taylor

Ago, as part of the appeal trial, they released the names of the people that would have gotten in that they had been manipulated.

Dr Craig

Right, so this so this is playing out right now and two days ago. So this, this, this scandal got blown wide open by. By do we know who was it? Was it a whistleblower or? Was it investigative journalists?

Speaker

You know Watergate.

Lord Taylor

I feel like I should know because it's part of my thesis, but no, I don't remember.

Dr Craig

That's right, it's probably. Best that that remains A murky mystery. But anyway. So two days ago they then, which is a kind of bittersweet announcement, they announced, hey, you would have actually been highly ranked if the system wasn't corrupt. Yeah. And so these guys taking legal action is that much, I mean, where do they go next is the fandom. Uprise and DDoS, everyone or?

Lord Taylor

At the moment it seems to be the sort of like a class action against the people because. Because as part of it, you people had to pay to.

Dr Craig

Vote no way. So you had to pay to vote, yeah. How did you Peter vote? What's?

Lord Taylor

That working for Australian and things like that where you texting or things like that. So it is essentially costing you money, right? You know where like.

Dr Craig

Yeah, because it. But yeah, and you're texting into a particular number, which has a particularly high. May charge it connected to it or something or.

Lord Taylor

I'm not, I'm not entirely sure. It might have been online or something, but I'm pretty sure that it was, yeah.

Dr Craig

Through that transaction, there was there was money that was, yeah, directly. Indirectly. OK. Right. So. So the fans, you know, you had to make an effort to vote. Yeah, and. It would be outrage.

Lord Taylor

I'm pretty sure.

Dr Craig

They are. Could you vote? Did you vote or was there anything?

Lord Taylor

Ohh no it was. Only a I think it was Korean and Japan. But it might have just been Korean, yeah.

Dr Craig

Korea in Japan, right. Which is interesting. Yeah, it's a global fandom, but really, the the empire of it is, is is career. Of course, you know. Unsurprisingly, it's keep up, and Japan and and really to interact in it, you need to be. Yeah. Yeah. OK. You do you use? Sorry, do you know anyone that? Does VPN to try? To get around that, or.

Lord Taylor

Oh, yeah, yeah, I've got a VPN to to sort of, you know, watch the what's it called? The TV shows over there.

Dr Craig

And stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And that is OK. That's because that's one of the other challenges of this material, of course, is that. Now we're in a wonderful environment of on demand viewing and digital engagement, and the Internet has everything. Nevertheless, there are. Geoblocking and so forth. So yeah, a lot of these shows you can't watch locally. Unless you use the VPN.

Lord Taylor

Yeah, but The thing is, I would buy it if it was here. Yeah, just available here through streaming through David. It was not. It was.

Dr Craig

Not yeah, even in. The globally, I guess that's a problem like Americans have difficulty accessing like these. These peripheral markets are kind of still shut out from these pieces.

Lord Taylor

America does have sort of this online streaming service, which does service them, but it only services America and South America. And so the rest of the world is kind of left fine dry.

Dr Craig

Why would that be? Is it? Is it that they that there's not enough of our audience there to to warrant a subscription service or?

Lord Taylor

I think so. There, there's not that many fans in Australia, I think, compared to anywhere else but. I'm kind of surprised about Europe. I'm pretty sure there's a few fans.

Dr Craig

There. Yeah. With Eurovision? Yeah, I mean again. I'm sorry. I'm I'm I'm clinching in terms of the it's probably bubbling but I I do see a bit of a crossover there with the kind of. Extroverted, kind of performativity of the KPOP space with the Eurovision. Is there a equivalent Eurovision thing in Asia? Where they, they they they challenge these geographies like of course you got J pop and KPOP and do they battle the jpop Kpop battles.

Lord Taylor

I haven't heard of that yet, but.

Dr Craig

You have. Well, there we go right here. We're cooling out the need for a kpop jpop battle. I'm thinking it has a lot of transmedia potential with some, you know, Street Fighter esque. Fighting SIM that's linked to it because I know in Japan at the end of every year they have what's called the. White uh competition team competition, which is telecast and it's one of those things like everyone tunes in it's New Year's Eve and everyone watches this thing and it's a it's a real ritual and what it involves is, is is they segregate the Japanese popular music scene into men and. Women and they compete against each other, right? So all the male.

Speaker

OK.

Dr Craig

Boy bands versus the female boy bands, the male crooner versus female crooner and they battle each other singing. And it's the red versus white battle. And every year there's a there's a winner and a loser. In terms of the gender series. So these verse competitions, that's where I kind of I was really stunned by this idea of a versus competition in Japan split across gender lines. Of course, Japanese pop music is huge, really popular, and there any competitions like that in Korea, huge tournament values? Or is it mainly these? These these talent shows?

Lord Taylor

Well, they tend to have sort of. Music shows that happen every week, so at the end of every week they'll show who the. The the top sort of songs are and they'll have them perform on the stage and there and do it across the whole multitude of different channels as well. But in particular, the one that I focused on my thesis which was produce. 48 which is produce 48 which.

Dr Craig

Is the name of a TV show.

Lord Taylor

Name of a TV show, which is the third or fourth season third season of the Project 101 series and the one that is currently going through all the trouble at the moment. So produce 48 that had it's called produce 48 because it's got produced from the Korean series. So it's got all the Korean trainees from all the major Korean companies and then 48 from a KB 48. The Japanese. Yeah, so.

Dr Craig

Oh, really, Jeff? Right. So it doesn't like there's not 48 bands or something. It's just an arbitrary homage.

Lord Taylor

No, no, no, it it was just because they had.

Dr Craig

Because 48 is that I think 48 refers to AK48 of course. Huge J pop. Girl band group enormous franchise 48 refers to the number of. People in the bands, they have a huge number of.

Lord Taylor

They do have.

Dr Craig

People in their band and.

Lord Taylor

A huge number of people in the room.

Dr Craig

Like 48. Sounds small. OK. SMS US on 0488811707 if you know what the 48 stands. For you could cheque it out, but I've wanted to do an SMS call out. So, right. Yeah, that's interesting. How much it does show that that Jpop influence Kpop, the Kpop is far and away more popular.

Lord Taylor

Ohh no it it it's the fact that the the members from AK48 competed to go into the.

Dr Craig

Band ohh in in this Korean song in this Korean TV.

Lord Taylor

Show into this Korean TV show to be in a Korean.

Dr Craig

Then ohh yeah, did they get in?

Lord Taylor

There were three.

Dr Craig

So, so, so that rivalry. You know, that rivalry is also a kind of respect for rivalry. Bit like the cricket teams, you know, here we go tackle when you tackle the Australian cricket team. The English cricket team, right, they they fight each other. They play against each other and but then there's also, you know. Many of the players in the other competitions will will come together like the competitions in India and so forth. Wow. OK, well look at. All this talk of musics got me interested in music, so let's go to a music break. He will listen to oxygenate by storm water Tessie band, but keep listening on it's radio media tackle and we'll come back and talk a little bit more about Asian media. And popular culture with Taylor. OK, you're listening to edge radio. This is media tackle with Craig Norris, PhD and. Taylor K Poppy verse. That's me. Yes, and that was I really was thrilled to hear that song I mentioned to. Taylor, it's the first song I've recognised. Smashing pumpkins. Huge fan. Of course. Smashing pumpkins for my own 20 something period. I won't date that at all. But great to see them. I think they're back, right, I think. They're back. I've not heard that song before. That was smashing pumpkins with. Yeah. So I've not heard before called ever lasting gaze. Go pumpkins. So here on media tackle with Craig Norris, PhD and Taylor, Kate offers we're talking everything in and around the world of media and big ideas. We our big idea for today's session, I guess we're we're heading to the top of the hour where the show will end. Edge Radio will continue though. Guys, people were worried. Anyway, the big idea for today's session has been cultural intermediaries. I expect to see a lot of people wearing T-shirts saying that in the future. I think we've really championing that idea. In fact, I might change the name of this show every week. I'll change it to what the idea is for confusion. What I wanted to do, though, was talk a little bit about our. Are first hand experiences of KPOP or Jpop right, given that it's a type of music engagement which for? Many people who are not familiar with that kind of music engagement is is odd. It's very different from going to a a band at a pub and being in a mosh pit or a banging your head too. Or heavy metal thing, or sitting down or whatever it is like in the Australian context. The the the Asian experience of Asia, particularly in Korea and Japan, is quite different. So Taylor, you mentioned, what's your experience been of first hand K Pop engaged?

Lord Taylor

So I haven't been to anything live, but I have. And that was because I I think it was during my thesis when I was supposed to be writing it. There was a. Online concert, which I went to and it's one of the best things.

Dr Craig

I've been to so this was a concert online. So you you opened your web browser. It could be Firefox or Chrome, Safari. Also, new Microsoft One Edge edge. Of your discretion and. Sorry, I'm feel like I'm explaining. How to get into the? Internet and there was a slide that right. So what was it on YouTube or something live?

Lord Taylor

Streams or twitch? It was on one of the sort of.

Dr Craig

It was for.

Lord Taylor

And websites you have to you have to pay for.

Dr Craig

So you had pay. For it you had to buy a ticket. And I'd mentioned like if I was like you said, it was like when you mentioned this during the music break, you said it was pricey, right?

Lord Taylor

It was price.

Dr Craig

Like it was price in comparison to what you'd pay for a live gig in the flesh. Or was it around the same price?

Lord Taylor

Or it's pricey in what you would pay for. A video, right? Yeah.

Dr Craig

Because you're thinking like this is an online stream thing.

Lord Taylor

Yeah, and. And they're sort of in the upper echelons of becoming. Near the price of an actual live gig.

Dr Craig

So what pushed you over the edge? Why did you just? I'd OK, but it's worth it, I. Should spend the money.

Lord Taylor

It's my favourite.

Dr Craig

Group. Ohh was you? What was your what? Was the group. Again, I was one eyes one. Yeah, that's English. Eyes one.

Lord Taylor

Yeah, I as one, I think I I think it's supposed to be, but it's like it's one yeah. And that's the group that came out of Project 48 and is now having. All the trouble? Ohh really.

Dr Craig

These are the ones that got busted. They were the heart of. The band that got corruptly escalated to win. Wow. Did that tanish your experience of watching? Did you know that before watching them live? Yes. OK. How have they survived? How have?

Lord Taylor

And it didn't.

Dr Craig

They peered that how have they said, you know, they said denied any first hand experience.

Lord Taylor

Well, yeah, it's the the people didn't know what was going on. It was all in upper management, right? And between companies, but.

Dr Craig

So the poor singers. You know the the press releases defined them as the victim, as the fandom had backed them up on that. The fandoms been behind them, saying, you know? We still have you.

Lord Taylor

Mostly others haven't, but The thing is, if you look at the people that have just been released a couple of days ago, you realise they wouldn't have fitted, they would not have fitted in with the concepts of the band, they wouldn't have fitted in with the sort of the, the stylization.

Dr Craig

Right. So the so the other? So in that. That talent quest show the people that, yeah, without the corruption would have won. And your feeling was they weren't going to be a mix a match anyway really, for the direction and the. Tone of and.

Lord Taylor

And that's even with one of the people being one of my favourites at the time of watching the show as well.

Dr Craig

Right. So maybe the management and this would be the, I guess the debate that's on Reddit, forum spaces, right, people contesting it. This would be the debate people saying you. Actually, yeah, maybe this did play out for the best anyway, and that's an interesting moment, right? That that point. Of you know the the. The what? The popular mass or the elites are perceiving here? So it's an interesting moment there, where obviously the management level decisions were, Oh my God, the votes are coming in for these. The managements thinking this is not gonna match the band, we have to step in and rig it so that that the singers that we know are going to fit, get get through so we can make it work and yeah, so you you feel that that in a way that that was kind of for the best. That it was rigged. It's very undemocratic, very northern Korea and like me, getting political, OK. That way so. Again, I just love that that the party machinery, right. So I'm thinking of the party machine, but I I'm thinking that that kind of. I mean the KPOP space must have this very real politique commercial management system within it right where it's like. You know, yes, there's a veneer of sorry. In this case, it appears there's a veneer of democracy, of fandom matters, and we listen to fans and we're all one big happy community. But then there are moments where, you know, actually it's a bit of a dictatorship. It's well, it's a classic commercial entity, right where? You know if if the the CEO or those in management ultimately don't think what the crowdsourcing is and we could go back to Bodie Mcboat face. Right. I mean so many examples where people have said no. Let the people decide and well.

Lord Taylor

Then the people don't. Know how to decide what?

Dr Craig

Well, they need to decide super well in a matter way in a mean way. They know how to decide, so they create both face for the English. What was it? Science vessel or something? Yeah, and which I always think is a great missed opportunity in terms of, yeah, then then the management decides, Oh my God, we can't actually let them decide. So we remove all those votes. Yeah. So yeah. Look, I think it is a real crisis there. It's an interesting crisis for a commercial entity or a responsible public entity to face where they. Where they're getting feedback from the public that they don't want. To hear or. That don't match. So. So OK, so go back. You went to a live gig online. Paid a lot of. Money for it. Yeah. And was it worth it? What was the feeling? What? What did you? Do that you had your headphones on.

Lord Taylor

I thought it was really worth it because it was. It was kind of like being there except all of the visual effects and everything were perfect. Because it was, uh. Done through just one particular viewpoint.

Dr Craig

So they didn't change viewpoints they didn't like take.

Lord Taylor

You. Yeah. Yeah, they did. They did change the viewpoints of the actual stage, but it was all constructed for that particular viewpoint at that particular.

Dr Craig

Right. Time. Well, it is interesting cause. Yeah, a lot of events. Since like the Olympics is a classic example of this, where really the performance of the Olympics, particularly opening ceremonies, I'm thinking and ending ceremonies are choreographed and scripted for a television audience, not for a live audience, right? If you're there, live watching the opening closing ceremonies as an audience member, it's probably very underwhelming. Anyway, in terms of what you see right, you're there for the atmosphere, obviously, and there's a lot of things that you will get that you. Won't get if you're watching on TV, but. Ultimately, the experience is tailor made for television in terms of those angles being able to take it all in. It's very much. Intended for television, so this was a gig, did. You feel it? Part of it was tailor made for this online experience. Was there a live audience there?

Lord Taylor

As well, no, because this was during COVID of course.

Dr Craig

So this was a strategy for them to still perform. Have a concert.

Lord Taylor

But there was also a lot of audience interaction as well, because they had these massive screens there that the performance could see that sort of had a a live. Comments section that people are commenting at them.

Dr Craig

They get toxic, kind of like I've I've been on Twitch. I I see some interesting.

Lord Taylor

Well, it was. It was paid for. So it was just fans.

Dr Craig

And I imagine there would be. A moderator still somewhat there.

Lord Taylor

Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Dr Craig

Did you get anything up? Did you did you type anything or what did you? What did you participate? How was your participation?

Lord Taylor

What did I say? I can't remember. I can't remember what I said, but they did read it out. So. It was really.

Dr Craig

It was in English or English.

Lord Taylor

Isn't he didn't? Yeah.

Dr Craig

Right. Wow that well. There we go. Did you screen capture it? Yeah, yeah. I you have to send me the copy. We'll put it up on the the Facebook so. What? What the magical so. One of the interesting things about. Live experience is that it's not maybe as memorable if it's online. Did you? Did you feel a certain feeling of of of I'm really alive now, like like you posted it up. You saw it? They responded to it and you thought. This this makes me feel so.

Lord Taylor

Alive. Yeah, I guess, yeah.

Dr Craig

OK. Well, you know, you've got a Co host on your Korean pop song. Did they also do this? Did you live? Tweet it. Do people react to it when you.

Lord Taylor

It was sort of more close circuit, so there was a lot of people that you know, that did sort of tweeted across things and stuff like that. But it was sort of more built to be closed circuit, so just the people that have paid for it and the performers themselves, so. They could see it as.

Dr Craig

Well, look, we're pretty much that was a great point to end on this experience of your. It's almost full circle, right that that you we started talking about you as a kind of cultural community and that you were simply promoting it. But then you know you've been recognised, there was a moment in this live gig where you participated. It was, you know, what would Henry Jenkins say? Well, my favourite theorists. You know, you live in the dream. There are three involvement. So well done, Taylor. Of course, if people get really excited about this and would actually like to listen to kabob, when should they TuneIn to?

Lord Taylor

Your show Fridays at seven, I think it's seven. It might be 6. I just look at. The website I can't remember.

Dr Craig

So look at the website, the Edge Radio 99.3 FM website and you will see there on Friday night K Pop verse from as you're explaining to me, universe. But you dropped the uni and you put K pop. Yeah, K pop verse. Verse yeah, just rolls off the tongue.

Lord Taylor

And I am looking for a name change as well so.

Dr Craig

That might be cultural intermediary K pop.

Lord Taylor

Coming in the kitchen.

Dr Craig

Rose of Patan. Well, thanks for listening to this. The inaugural show for media tackle. I feel like I need to do a sports theme now, like the wide world of sports. Well, maybe I'll play with that. Thanks Taylor so much for coming on. Do make sure you listen to a show on Friday nights and yeah, join us again next Thursday as we talk about everything in and around the world of media. Tell you have any final words? Goodbye. Hi, very good.





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