Episode 43
First Broadcast @ Edge Radio, Friday 28 July 2023
Watch on YouTube
Get ready for another thrilling episode of Media Mothership, where we dive deep into the hottest topics and trends in media and culture. In this episode, we explore the Barbenheimer phenomenon, a viral sensation that has sparked debates behind its Wikipedia page, and how it reflects the immediacy and pitfalls of online trends.
We also interview Sophia Staite, a PhD graduate from the University of Tasmania and expert on the Japanese tokusatsu genre, which features superheroes, monsters, and special effects. She tells us all about Kamen Rider, one of the most popular and influential tokusatsu series of all time, and how it appeals to both kids and adults in Japan. She also explains why Kamen Rider failed to catch on in the West, and what it would take to make it a global hit. Finally, we discuss the latest film by Hideki Anno, the visionary director of Neon Genesis Evangelion. His new film, Shin Kamen Rider, is a reboot of the classic tokusatsu franchise, with a darker and more realistic tone. We analyze its strengths and weaknesses, and how it compares to his previous works. Don’t miss this episode of Media Mothership, where we bring you the best insights and opinions on media and culture. Subscribe now and join the conversation!
Sources:
https://kotaku.com/barbenheimer-barbie-oppenheimer-meme-wikipedia-war-1850664668

Transcript
This transcript was generated by audio-to-text AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you have questions about any of the information found here, please reach out to us at: mediamothership993fm at gmail . com
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CRAIG NORRIS
Alright, you're listening to the media mothership here on Edge Radio, 99.3 FM and.
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CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, I have to.
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CRAIG NORRIS
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So good to hear it again.
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You are about to experience the knowledge and insights of the media mothership.
CRAIG NORRIS
I think ohh I've got it on repeat. Here we go. Here we go. Now play the game. Hold on. Nope, there we go. Yeah, well, you know it's it will start trending. So this is media mothership, broadcasting Live Edge radio studios and Nepal, Luna Hobart TAS. I'm your host. Doctor Craig joined back again. Lord Taylor hello with his brand new improved voice. I'm missing a couple of tea, so yeah, I I don't know. It's maybe some bass to it.
Speaker
Does it? No.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ohh dear. In post, we'll fix that.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I've I've just, like, lost some wisdom, that's what.
CRAIG NORRIS
It is. That's a see that joke. How how often do you hear that joke? Have you heard that joke? A lot, yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
3-4 Times Now, James.
CRAIG NORRIS
And we'll try to continue that through the the the programme today SMS in if you want to make a joke about getting teeth removed on 0488811707, you can also join us on the chat. Which is because we stream on YouTube and Twitch, so you can chat to us via the YouTube or Twitch stream. Just search for media mothership today. It's media mothership. Great pleasure to have. Sophia State in like like minutes away from calling you doctor.
SOPHIA STAITE
It's my pleasure. I I actually don't know if I am or not, yes.
Speaker
Right.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's like ohh, normally they they normally it's when you. You get it right. The you go up on the stage. And then after.
SOPHIA STAITE
That so we mere weeks away? Yeah, but you. Call me Proto Dr like that Proto Dr.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, yeah. Prequel Dr This is the prequel period, so it's an absolute pleasure to have you in Sophia. And we're gonna dive into your recently minted. PhD thesis on common writer the fantastic Japanese. You know, so many words could be applied to the common rider dreamscape fantasy.
SOPHIA STAITE
Like that.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Is that what?
SOPHIA STAITE
It is, but it's a multimedia franchise, so there's there are stage musicals, there's an anime.
CRAIG NORRIS
CD-ROM kind of stuff. Multimedia, yeah.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yes, there was a seat. Ageing ourselves here a little bit.
CRAIG NORRIS
Multimedia. I do kind of think you know. 1990s.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, yeah, transmedia is that. The more up to date. Look, there was a, there's a Wii game that I think you can still buy if you still have a Wii.
CRAIG NORRIS
For me. Cassette tapes, yeah.
SOPHIA STAITE
I don't have it. If anyone would like to donate the come and ride a Wii game, I do still have multiple Wii consoles.
CRAIG NORRIS
Excellent. Looking forward to hearing all that and more on media mothership. It's just going to play in a second.
Speaker
This is.
CRAIG NORRIS
What is it, common rider Kabuto? You've got it on. On repeat here playing with laptops, I'm going. To put a cross through. The repeat sign on my media player, so yeah. Quality. Yeah. So I've got sound effects from the entirety of Kamen Rider, I think, or at least some of the toys and video games. And possibly do you were you familiar with that? Little music snippet.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yes, I've not watched a lot of Kabuto, but yeah, it's it's one of the enduring favourites and the tourists are still going for quite a high price second hand, which is very impressive because it's from the. Early 2000s.
CRAIG NORRIS
Oh, right. So yeah. Not not too, too late again. Just got one new story. I think I'm just gonna skip to to one new story. Which is the second one? The massive Wikipedia war over Barban heimer. This article in Kotaku, which I was really intrigued by because it had Barb and Heimer. And Wikipedia war together to explain kind of I guess. The cultural ripples. Of this phenomena, So what is Marvin Heimer? Anyone put themselves through a Barb and heimer.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I haven't. I'm going to, really.
CRAIG NORRIS
Are you going to do like? Barbie or Oppenheimer? You're going to do. One of those two.
SOPHIA STAITE
Probably not. I saw Barbie and and I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Thank you, Sophia, for. Rescuing this segment.
SOPHIA STAITE
Look, I I. Wouldn't have accepted it. It just seemed like such a cultural moment. And I didn't want to miss. The moment it would be like. You know, just watching TV instead of going. To the fall of the ball Berlin Wall. Almost. Totally not in terms of significance.
Speaker
You know people going.
SOPHIA STAITE
But in terms of the the feeling of of zeitgeist and and it was a really incredible an incredible cinema experience. People were laughing out loud. Women were turning around and complimenting the outfits and really sitting around them. It was the most joyous kind of experience, so. You know, I'm kind of ambivalent about the film, but just as an experience, it was great. I don't know if that happened at Oppenheimer. I don't know if people were complimenting each others fedoras.
Speaker
Because they were.
CRAIG NORRIS
Or there were in some cinemas little set up. Booths. You get photos taken and so forth. Yeah. Did you? Was that there?
SOPHIA STAITE
Yes, no. Well, I went to the, I saw it at the state showed up to the state and there is a a lovely chandelier there. So that was a good. Photo spot, but it wasn't. And there was no like Barbie. Box that you can just step inside.
CRAIG NORRIS
So sorry, special effects of my own with the freaking microphone sand. Barbie. So what did you think? Was it the cultural phenomenon? People, you know, you've got a story to tell when they say, where were you when the Barbie and Hymer? Thing I've heard.
SOPHIA STAITE
I said I was ambivalent about the film. It's a beautifully made film, and I think it would be an excellent text to study in film school. The musical numbers during pregnancy.
CRAIG NORRIS
Lot of intertextuality.
SOPHIA STAITE
Just so well made and and really funny, but for me personally, the politics were just kind of dodgy so.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, well, I guess. We aren't really getting to it. That's yeah, yeah.
SOPHIA STAITE
We can't spoil it. It's too recently released, but of course the more significant release on the same weekend was Shin come and ride or shinma right? Totally. As you said the other day, Craig, we should really have been talking about Shin Babbin.
CRAIG NORRIS
Exactly. Shin, Barb and Homer. Is really. I think we need to be mapped out. There's a triangle, really. Of things. I mean, people have written articles. You know retroactively. The chlorine back previous moments in cinematic history that are above and in the moments right, so the other one that I've seen getting some trending is the what is it? The Mamma Mia and Dark Knight crossover not crossover. Simultaneous release which occurred right? So yeah, they're saying this is the that's the original Barnham at the moment.
SOPHIA STAITE
Jack. Mia. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because both those. Films released same day the The kind of polarising in terms of their audiences, but within each of them is an interesting overlap around. You know the hero's journey, if we. Could produce it to Joseph Campbell quote. We have done in on this episode 31. For today. Big time. Of course. Yeah, yeah. So Doc 9 Mum and me. So people are rediscovering. So again, I think people will say this was a Shin Bob Anaheim, a moment we will get around to the shin in a second. But let's dive quickly into the Kotaku article. What it's doing is describing. The Wikipedia page, so this was the Wikipedia. Page got set. Up for the Barb and Hymer phenomena. What was interesting about the Kotaku article was that it talks about the war that broke out around whether this should first be a sub category of the Barbie page or the off page, right? So there was a lot of debate around where where this really lies in terms of its. Audience kind of. Linking then the other one was people saying that this I think that within the day that it was put up, people were editors were voting to remove it, to delete it. Saying this is just a fad, this is just a trend. Wikipedia is above that and and should have. Articles that will will stay the course. So then there was a a vote which was taking and nearly 100 editors voted to keep it. Despite the controversy around it being maybe frivolous, but you know people saying no, no, it could prove prove useful information and context for future researchers and fans of the meme, right. So it's interesting point that, you know, if we if it was to be removed future. Memoli exists. Yeah, there will be things, miss. And it's not too difficult to think about that. I mean, there's been a small tangent here, but bear with me. There's been a lot of research done on on early era video games becoming lost, particularly mobile phone games that a lot of those mobile phone games are lost now because.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
There's a couple of games that I wish I could. Get back right?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, there was a researcher I was talking to a few years back who said that the problem with a lot of mobile phone games is that the operating systems need to be preserved back in the moment those games. Were released because. Updates of those operating systems on phones. Are not backwards compatible to many early games, which means they're impossible to play.
SOPHIA STAITE
If I can be. Excused for adding a tangent to your tangent.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's it's double down.
SOPHIA STAITE
Another kind of tragedy for memoli exists, flash. I've I was trying to look at some vintage Kamen Rider websites. They're all flash based. There's just I couldn't figure out a way to.
CRAIG NORRIS
Nice. Yep.
SOPHIA STAITE
Access that content anymore. So even though we have. Way back. Yeah. Archive without the Flash plugin. Those pages are just blank.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. So you know, it's certainly part of our duty here in media mothership to make sure I curate and keep everything we do on this show. Forever attainable.
SOPHIA STAITE
Culturally significant.
CRAIG NORRIS
Business now www.aufor. Yeah, well, OK on that. What's some of your? Well, did you have a point? About Bob and home.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, there. There were two very strange things that I saw. Interesting, funny things on Twitter about Barb and Heimer. One of them was. A picture and it was Oppenheimer, and there was something that had gone wrong up in the what's it called the?
SOPHIA STAITE
Sky projection box.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Product prediction box, yes. And half the screen was pink.
CRAIG NORRIS
In the Oppenheimer film in the Oppenheimer film, half of it was pink. Yes. Was that Barbie terrorists? I mean, it sounds like something the Bobby Liberation Front would.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Do and then the second thing. That I saw on Twitter.
Speaker
Do you think?
CRAIG NORRIS
Why not? It just happened.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
It it was just like a glitch in it it it was just like, yeah, it it was a doctored image. Either I did make sure of that.
Speaker
It was just.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I can't remember where it was. It was like in Germany.
Speaker
Creepy. Sometimes not.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's like one of those stories about ghosts where people go like, whoa, that's creepy because that's creepy, right? But it's. Hobby, but it it's like it wasn't the it's not Nolan's intent to film to, to have that screen half pink. No. So it's almost like emergent story telling the the film stock itself was doing emergent storytelling. The film stock itself became sentient and failed and need to express the buttenheim.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Within and the second thing that I saw was what was it? It was Oppenheimer. And because it was an English showing in a foreign country, I can't remember which country it was, but it was a European country. They put in the wrong English subtitles. They put in the Barbie. Subtitles. No. Wow. Really. Yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
Wow, cause I do know. I mean one of my favourite culture jamming moments from. The 1980s, I know, all of us have many of.
SOPHIA STAITE
These many.
CRAIG NORRIS
We go around and 2nd and exchange stories. Yeah, my favourite one is you can search on YouTube. In fact, we played it on this episode. 10 episodes, so was the baby Liberation Front, where during Christmas of like 1981, these activists had been working on Barbie and GI Jojos that they built and changed voice boxes. It was during. A period where there was a voice box Barbie and GI Joe, and they've been changing voice boxes on them. So the Barbie. Character would say you know.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I'm going to kill you. Kill you.
CRAIG NORRIS
And the GI Joe goes like, you know, yeah, do. These shoes go with. This top or something and then what? They did, which was so great. Was that they went back into store like they they did the voice box surgery and then they repackaged them, took them back into stores and put them. On the shelves. Just leading up to Christmas, so a number of news shows got on onto this as as kids would open up these Barbie or JoJo dolls and talk. Out there encounter with Derrida's deconstructionism that they experienced during Christmas of 81. Yeah.
SOPHIA STAITE
Everything that kids wanted to talk about during that Christmas.
CRAIG NORRIS
This is just like there. It is deconstructive, and they're, you know, switching bait. Yeah. There will be a reading list for this episode. You can get on the show notes. Anything else about Bob and Heimer? Not from me being favourite. Fan moments.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Haven't seen the movie, so I can't. Say anything about?
CRAIG NORRIS
How do you think, people, what do you think people will be saying about this in 20 years time? They'll be referring to this show.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Of course, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Barb and heimer. Yeah. OK, so coming up next. Will be a sound effect. One second. Gonna play one more. Cause that was a bit. Short just to set us.
Speaker
We paid change, paid theirs. We are straight 5.
CRAIG NORRIS
What was that? That was cuds.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yes, I can point to the one on. My T shirt, but what's? It called so the theme for for that season was a deck of cards playing cards, so their faces are actually in the shape of spades.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Common rider lawyer.
SOPHIA STAITE
Which one is it? No. Talk amongst.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yourselves come. And ride a. Poker come and ride a straight flush.
SOPHIA STAITE
No, they they don't have names that are quite that sensible usually. But that I don't know. We haven't actually introduced what Kamen Rider is.
CRAIG NORRIS
That sound effective? Hopefully yes, we're trying.
SOPHIA STAITE
I mean, we can. You're sorry.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK. Well, let's, I'll play. I'll play. Let's play a clip. Here's a clip that will explain everything. OK, we'll see how far we get through it. So. Sit back and. Enjoy this shift into the next topic for media, mother. Ship here on at Radio 90. 9.3 with your host. To Craig, going by Lil Taylor. Right. Are you mistakes can. I pro proto Proto Dr State yeah.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
There we go.
Speaker
I understand.
CRAIG NORRIS
Good explanation.
Speaker
You know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Is this helping? OK, there's sound effects.
SOPHIA STAITE
That's from Shin Carmen rider.
CRAIG NORRIS
This is Xinjiang.
Speaker
Come in later.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. So I think that's pretty clear. Enlightenment OK. What did you? Pick up from that trailer for Shin Come and ride it that you think might be helpful for people that never seen it before.
SOPHIA STAITE
Well, I'm I'm seeing cause I've seen it but. In that trailer, there's some conflict back and forth between the common rider. Who has defected from the shocker organisation that created him and the other augmented humans? So they're they're originally humans, but they've been modified to have Cyborg elements and animal elements. And they're asking him why he's fighting against him, even though he's like them and he's talking about defending humanity so.
CRAIG NORRIS
Common ride is one of the oldest and longest running superhero franchises in Japan, right?
SOPHIA STAITE
Ohh that's a good question. I yeah I would think so. Fifty. Yeah, 51 now. That was the 50th anniversary. The movie was made for the 50th anniversary but delayed by COVID.
CRAIG NORRIS
50 years. Right. Shouldn't come and.
SOPHIA STAITE
Write her shouldn't come and write her, yeah. Actually there it's 52 years. Sorry.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. So I should have a sound effect to go when I. See shikama rider. It just takes a while. For it.
Speaker
There we go.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yep, that's not from Shin Kamen.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's not.
Speaker
I looked up I.
SOPHIA STAITE
Looked up the the car deck one that was blade come and. Ride a blade. Ah, we wanted to skip back to. But OK. I usually explain how and write it by referring to Power Rangers. That's kind of an easy in for people.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ohh, do you want to play that again? The cut I'm all up for playing mode these. Sound effects that I've collected. We'll skip it. So one of the longest running Japanese superhero franchises. 50 years. It spawned numerous movies, comics, games, toys, and other media forms, making it a cultural phenomenon and icon.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, absolutely.
CRAIG NORRIS
Not many people would know about it, though, outside of Japan, right? I mean, well outside of what geography? Wouldn't people really know much about it? Like it? Does it have a footprint in Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So throughout Asia or East Asia at least, and also in South America.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right, Argentina, Brazil.
SOPHIA STAITE
In in Brazil particularly, yeah, but I believe some some people have told me that they saw it growing up in, in Italy and in Spain. So I believe that there was also, at least for a time, a presence in Europe, but really in the in the English speaking world. It's it's not well known.
CRAIG NORRIS
Completely overshadowed. By, well, what's the what's? The live action Japanese show that you might know off the. Top of your. Head that involves people dressing up as superhero.
Speaker
Who I've actually.
CRAIG NORRIS
And fighting other people dressed up as monsters and they'll be in a team. I I can't complain because I know on your show K pop unlimited coming up next from 5:00 PM. Yeah, I.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
You don't know anything.
CRAIG NORRIS
A complete buffoon, yeah. So you, you're you're playing a great role in today's show, being oblivious. Yeah, to to the genre. OK, so. Power Rangers? What? Is all those thinking? About it's the Power Ranger is pretty much the one that most people in the West would know. What's the link between Power Rangers? And carbon.
SOPHIA STAITE
Rider yeah. So I'm going to have to go back to the 1970s to explain this. Common writer was created in 1971, was enormously successful in Japan, and so the same manga artist and production company decided to have spin-off that had multiple characters so as to maximise the merchandising. And that franchise was Supercenter, which I think was 75 onwards. And that is the franchise that is chopped up and mixed together with newly filmed footage that's created in English to create power ranges. So Power Rangers isn't actually a Japanese show, but it's made with sections of footage from the Japanese show where the characters are wearing masks because the faces aren't visible, and they're then replaced for the scenes where they have taken off the masks with American or more recently, New Zealand and Australian actors. Until this this year my there's a bit of a question mark over the future of Power Rangers, but up until this year it's been produced in New Zealand.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, which is cause yeah, it's with some of these productions of the tokusatsu material has been produced in like Australia, I think had a small segment of something made.
SOPHIA STAITE
It was an Ultraman film, I think.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right in like SA near the. Some mine. I can't remember. All right. So the other thing about tokusatsu when I was looking into it is Cameron is considered one of The Pioneers.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hmm, OK, what is tokusatsu? Ohno tonkotsu.
Speaker
OK.
CRAIG NORRIS
We've got our expert here, focus hats.
SOPHIA STAITE
Tokusatsu is not related to Tonkatsu. Unfortunately, tokusatsu is special, so it's it's basically special effects filming so. And that that usually means practical special effects. So Godzilla would be tokusatsu anything sort of involving those latex monster suits or trick photography would probably fall under through.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
OK. OK.
SOPHIA STAITE
So for Carmen Rider, although there are digital effects, a lot of it's still done with pyrotechnics, practical, like actual explosions. I've seen some really cool behind the scenes footage where half of the casts are performing backwards. Well, the main characters are performing forwards and they reverse the footage so that it. It looks like the other way. So yes, a lot of a lot of practical stunts and practical special effects.
CRAIG NORRIS
Awesome. So what sets come and writer apart in this very crowded genre of tokusatsu?
SOPHIA STAITE
Ohh so the other big name, the big two are Ultraman or Ultraman and Kamen Rider. And they're made by rival studio, so Ultraman is made by Toho, which also is a studio behind Godzilla and Kamen. Rider is made by Toei Studios who are also famous for doing sort of period like samurai Sword Fighting films and yakuza films. So there's a. Bit of a rivalry between the two and it's a little bit of a Marvel DC kind of split in the fandom and there's some interesting stuff being published by Japanese researchers actually drawing a lot of parallels between the kind of respective ideologies of those two. Franchises. So Ultraman being the alien who comes from outside and fixes human problems versus Carmen Rider, who's this kind of very flawed. Or monstrous hero, very much a product of science and experimentation, some of Marvel's. You know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Wolverine and compared to something like Superman, you so yeah, the the being in an an analogist to a Superman character for Ultraman. It's interesting, then, that the shin phenomena, that the shin Carbon Rider it's now available to watch on prime. Amazon prime. Has unified this world building right? So Shin, Godzilla, Shin Ultraman and Shin Carmen Rider and I was trying to look for some fan theories around this this universe. There's meant to be some institution, institution X or something which is in. All three of.
SOPHIA STAITE
Right. Well, I haven't actually. Seen the other Shin Heroes universe films. So yeah, sorry about that.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK.
SOPHIA STAITE
I I think much as the others, she can come and ride was a a remake. Or a reboot, yeah. So, Honga Tucker, she we had the name in. The clip that you played earlier. Is the name of the original Carmen writer character who's created in the early 70s, so it's not. I mean, it's an original. Story in some ways, but it's very much harking back. I'm sure you have some sound effects that you can play that are quite distinctly 1970s. If you're familiar with any 1970s Japanese television, yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes, let's see what this one does. It will happen standing by. OK, that's from.
SOPHIA STAITE
One of the toys.
CRAIG NORRIS
All of the menu. Anyway, we'll keep going. So Shin Kamen Rider, directed by Hideki Anno, famous for Evangelion and well known fanboy of these franchises. Godzilla, Ultraman, Kamen rider. So again the the. Kamen Rider has. Received a lot of praise as being a very heartfelt. Kind of tribute to this storytelling. It's gone really strong reviews. Critically, some people. What are some of the ones that I've picked up? So Roger Ebert gave the movie 3.5 out of four stars. Praising it as a thrilling and thoughtful, thrilling and thoughtful, both as an expression of UNOS instantly recognisable style. And a weirdly moving expression of the title hero's restless spirit. Some people, yeah. So other people have have have pointed out that it's a loving and idiosyncratic deconstruction of Carmen Rider, a wayward young hero who defends the world from the villainous shocker organisation and their various animal men cyborgs. And an immensely entertaining film that serves as a respectful throwback to carbon writer, a surprisingly welcoming entry point into the source material, as well as a touching allergy to depression and surviving for true happiness, which is a very dark theme.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, it's a very dark franchise, some more than others. I I it's it's great that this movies release is an opportunity for people who might never have heard of come and write it to, to get on board with. I don't know if the movie is the best entry point to the franchise. I mean, you can go into it without knowing anything and that's great, but. Maybe I'm wrong actually, maybe it is a good entry point because those reviews that you've just just read sound very positive for me. I I was. A little at times a little bored because it it, you know, if you are familiar with the franchise, it's very much a a homage. It's there's not a lot that's new. From my point of view, standing by for hate mail.
CRAIG NORRIS
Listen now 04888117. 07 or reach? Out to us on the chat. Is the Shin Kamen Rider dull and repetitive.
SOPHIA STAITE
And no, it's not dull. It's a it's a good movie, but it's very it's rehashing content that that is from the 70s. With the slight addition of an AI kind of subplot.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes. So those two figures, the, the robot and the because what I remember the you've got this, this. Moments where the shocker organisation, fully understood, is set up to bring about world happiness. Right the the, the, the, the, the initial vision of it is for for Utopia that that humanity is full of despair. And so a a group, a group, a single scientist or a kind of organisation, get together to a bit vague in the movie. Again, it's not really an entry point.
Speaker
It is, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Come together and they set up this idea of of how we can help humanity attain happiness, but it quickly backfires as, and I think it's linked to. The I I remember. That the the solution is not to maximise everyone's happiness. Right. That's impossible to make everyone happy, but to find. A critical mass of of people do make them happy, which are the orgs? It seems like the. Orgs are are very. Very happy when they're getting their organs. Now, I mean, there's all these scenes where it's like, well, because there's the two common writers come around 1:00 and 2:00 up here and comma Rider 2 is being brainwashed. And the way that the kind of Cyborg. Then female character stops. That brainwashing is. Is this description of, you know, your your mind is is kind of warped into seeing happiness. Through the destruction of others. Blocking that signal will bring in the despair that's been, you know, kind of repressed and make you a. A full free thinking individual to get the plant.
SOPHIA STAITE
Now that now that you put it like that, it's very much an ANO film.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. So yes.
SOPHIA STAITE
You know, those are very much his themes. Yeah, but there.
CRAIG NORRIS
Does that make sense within the Carmen rider mythos? I mean, is that a powerful central mythology the the, the, the, the kind of we need to understand each other's floors. We can't just repress floors that should of happiness is good, but it can't come at the expense of.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, I mean there. Are different sort of phases in Carmen Rider, but one of his one of the the characteristics of the Carmen writers as characters is that they suffer and their suffering is a really important part of the show. So they're not heroic in the sense of going out there and kicking **** and being really awesome. They're heroic because they endure unbearable suffering so that other people won't have to.
CRAIG NORRIS
Suffer so very Christ like narrative. Is it I mean to be, I mean obviously this is not, I mean it. Must be quite obvious that. Do many people point out the Christ analogy that that camera seems to suffering, and so?
SOPHIA STAITE
Forth, no, I haven't seen it highlighted, but perhaps because in, in, in a sense it's almost a. Oh, actually, I don't want to. Get into the theology, but.
CRAIG NORRIS
There's the famous one with Ultraman being crucified.
Speaker
Yes, so there's a.
CRAIG NORRIS
Lot of unusual ways Christianity pops up, but not in the case. For carbon riders.
SOPHIA STAITE
Not in the case of come and write it here. The other kind of definitive characteristic is that the common writer. Is essentially. The same as the monsters, but through the purity of heart or the strength of will. Sort of doesn't succumb to that sort of evil. So whereas in Ultraman he is a good alien, and justice is fundamentally good, it's kind of, you know, that D&D thing, you know, a good race, right, come and ride is not that common Rider is a monster who chooses to use.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes, well for good.
SOPHIA STAITE
His or her powers for the protection of.
CRAIG NORRIS
The weak and Kamara gets a lot of praise because of it that you know it's it's it's a dark kind of maybe more realistic superhero through that Cyborg identity, the.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah. I mean, he's like a robot bug guy. It's very, very, very realistic. But I mean, my so part of my doctor, well, the the starting point of my doctoral research was why. Why we don't? Have Carmen Ryder in the English speaking world and actually that that was part of my conclusion was that that ambiguity does not fit with how children's television has traditionally been conceptualised in in the English speaking world. The idea that. Yeah, that, that the monster can be and. And you know, we're seeing a lot of media now that's tackling those kind of issues. Pneumonia has just come out recently on Netflix. So it really directly addresses that kind of. But the time period I was looking at the, the 1990s, that very much wasn't kind of part of American children's television.
CRAIG NORRIS
So with your thesis, yeah, the question was if you, if you look at the impact of Japanese pop culture, I guess in the West, there are a lot of moments of breakthrough where where various techs for various reasons did become enormously popular in mainstream Power Rangers being one we talked about. And it's unusual. Maybe is it unusual that Carmen Rider, I mean your, your your conclusion was that the themes are. Too dark for that moment, or at least they were rubbing up against. Well, well, tell me what they were rubbing up against various. Television policies, screening policies, audience.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, I mean, there are a whole a whole lot of things. I looked at another one and the thing that I got really kind of interested in toward the end of the research and probably irritated my. Long suffering supervisors by. Going off on tangents about was the gender, so the construction of of boyhood through what elements of texts were. Edited out or kept in when moving between cultures when those texts. Were for boys. I am. And that's that's maybe a rabbit hole we could. Go down a. Little bit later in the afternoon, but come and ride it was it was remade in the way that I've described Power Rangers being remade, so cut up and interspersed with new footage twice, once in the 90s and once in the. 2000s and. So what I was looking at and the research was why didn't those attempts have the same kind of success that that Power Rangers did? And especially as the earlier one was called Sabans writer was introduced. The character was the common writer character was introduced in Power Rangers in a kind of crossover episode, and then there was a spinoff show. So.
Speaker
All of the.
SOPHIA STAITE
The the foundation was there. It was tapping into this mega hit. At the time it was made in the same way. So why didn't it take off in the same way that Power Rangers did?
CRAIG NORRIS
So the some of. Those themes the the darker themes, the ideas of a. A boy coming of age as a man were too lost in translation, were too kind of erased from the Western version, softened.
SOPHIA STAITE
Well, so there are. There are differences between. The two, so the. Saban, one in the 90s, the the Power Rangers spin off a really pushed it into a sitcom and I don't. I wasn't able to get a great answer for why that happened. Sitcoms were sort of topping all the ratings at the time and. And maybe they were just trying to jump on that bandwagon, but they certainly some of the elements that were a bit transgressive in Power Rangers. So that I think you know we have kind of evidence that children really appreciated some of those transgressive elements. And of course, it was a huge moral panic around Power Rangers. And and because of that moral panic, perhaps they dialled back on some of those more transgressive elements when they made what's called masked rider. To try and be more compliant, but then that's kind of the the paradox is that in their effort to make it more compatible with American television, it lost whatever it was that the kids were enjoying about it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes, I mean what with the original, what would you say if you wanted to cherry pick some moral panic topics out of Carmen Rider? What? What do you think you could hone in on? I mean, the the kind of gender fluidity of a character, the.
SOPHIA STAITE
Ohh, I mean if you just took it over wholesale, what would bother people? Yeah, so particularly since the 2000s. And this is might maybe something that links into K Pop a little bit. There's definitely been an intentional push towards. I don't want to say queer baiting because I don't think that's what's happening. References to boys love so. Intense and intense emotional relationships between beautiful young men. And that's been like a very intentional part of the marketing of Carmen Rider. A recent series was billed as a heated drama between men. That was the tagline that I put on it.
CRAIG NORRIS
So this is a a very conscious effort to recognise that part of the appeal of this ostensibly children's. Live action superhero series Carmen writer at that period was an audience that would find what is it? A tension between men or heated drama?
SOPHIA STAITE
He said.
CRAIG NORRIS
So yes, much more explicit. A heated drama between men, which I know you've presented on. I've seen some great presentations you've done, and the one that I enjoyed was where you were pointing out. That there's a Japanese housewife audience for this material, which is that what this is getting at, that that heated drama between men is the kind of Japanese housewife.
SOPHIA STAITE
Audience. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So they're the primary audience is children, between roughly 2 and eight years of age. It's quite a young audience. So they're quite likely to be watching, accompanied by a parent. It's quite early on a Sunday morning, so that parent is just to to go with the gender stereotypes. It's going to be the mum is getting up to watch come and rider. So the second largest audience is women in their late 20s and early 30s.
CRAIG NORRIS
Second largest audience right, which they recognise or interesting thing here is they recognise it and then rather than just saying, well, that's kind of bycatch.
SOPHIA STAITE
The second largest, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
From what I'm fishing for, say you know that's an audience we can market to or or create content that's appealing to.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, and. And there's a whole heap of spin-off merchandise that's directed to to women. So thanks to the University of Tasmania for giving me some research funding to purchase a number of. Semi nude photo books featuring these young actors which you know, obviously they they they're unknown actors are casting common writer. It's not a franchise that uses known actors, so it's the breakthrough role for these young actors. And you know, they're supportive. Audience can support them while also enjoying some you know. Amazingly moist topless photography.
CRAIG NORRIS
That wonderfully descriptive language. Because, yeah, just as a 20 something Japanese woman stereotypically might be buying jpop or K pop boy band merchandise and so forth. Here we have. Again, a a children's live action superhero space that also has this kind of ancillary market which is being marketed to as well as having you know your classic costumes for kids, right? So so you'd have merchandise geared around like very, I guess the phrase is toyetic.
Speaker
Right that.
CRAIG NORRIS
But Batman Schumacher phrase about you know why he had to put so many special effects things in the Batman series was to make sure it could sell toys common rated. That's the primary that seems to be the primary surface level it a lot. Of toys for kids.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah. So it's Co produced by Bundi, the toy company and and the the the whole kind of Arc of the stories narrative is determined by the toy production schedule.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right, yes.
SOPHIA STAITE
So a new character or an upgraded ability emerges roughly every 10 to 15 episodes to match that to a production cycle.
CRAIG NORRIS
And would have been some of the upgraded.
Speaker
Did you look?
CRAIG NORRIS
I mean the upgraded material that you found kind of surprising or could be translated or wasn't translated?
SOPHIA STAITE
Sorry upgrade.
CRAIG NORRIS
The kind of like yeah, cause it seems like like I know there's belts, there's card games, there's various kind of merchandise. That I was thinking of because I know I mean there there's a kind of autobiographical dimension here that your own son would have been wanting to buy some of this, these goods. How? How did you negotiate that as a as a mother with a son that was into Carmen Rider and wanting to perform Carmen Rider.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah. Well, I I was introduced to the franchise by my eldest son also, since since you've asked. Thank you. Hi, Ren. High tension. They asked me to. Do it.
Speaker
Big shout out.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hey, hold on. Let me see if I can get a special effects to go. Along with that shout. Out just very normally. Very it's it's just.
SOPHIA STAITE
Flowing very well naturally has set that up, yeah. Beautiful. That was the common Redford.
Speaker
Day belt I I I.
CRAIG NORRIS
That's right. Hearing again. That's right, really.
SOPHIA STAITE
Have that one or sorry Ren. Has that one and. There is a certain amount of conflict over who owns the toys, so.
CRAIG NORRIS
But So what does this one do? The. What is it the fours 8?
SOPHIA STAITE
Forza this is from a space themed one that was created in the same year that Japan launched. I think the Hayabusa satellite for those kind of a space like everyone was excited about space and it's set in a space high school which is a real thing.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right, Yep.
SOPHIA STAITE
There are space high schools if you want to go into the space programme, you go into the to the space high school. And the Carmen riders henchman is kind of I'm again going to point to the T shirt for all the people listening at home. It's like an astronaut kind of suit. And the belt has Astro switches that go in and they change different parts of his body.
Speaker
Oh yes.
SOPHIA STAITE
So if you put like the drill switch into the leg slot on the belt, then his leg turns into a drill. So it's quite like it's. It's almost a gutsy toy and that you can change the parts of the carbon riders body by inserting different bits into the belt.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, so the the did that form the genesis of wanting to do a thesis around that as you were negotiating? Pleasures and pains of of performative toy play.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah, I mean. So I will. I will tell you the story of how the research started, which you've heard before, but. You're very patient.
CRAIG NORRIS
I guess well because yes, I was supervising Sophia.
Speaker
To ask but but.
SOPHIA STAITE
Before we actually left Japan and moved here, just talking about that crossover mother son. Audience, we did have a slightly awkward experience where? There were posters up saying that the current user was the the big Supercenter at the time, and that was Dino. Rangers in English? I think Power Rangers Dino Charge was one of the more popular series in English and the Red Ranger was coming to our little country town. To do a talk at. A local shopping centre and I. Thought that it was for kids and my eldest was really into the Red Rangers so I was like, yeah, let's go. We'll see the Red Ranger and we got there and it turned out it was actually not that. It was called and it came and talked like a handsome man's conversation. Kind of. And it was, in fact, for the mum audience and he was wearing normal, like kind of like an unbuttoned. And and sitting on a bar stool like chatting. And it was so, so not what my poor son.
Speaker
Was expecting.
SOPHIA STAITE
And and we had to leave in disappointment.
CRAIG NORRIS
So were there any other young kids there that? Equally, will crystal.
SOPHIA STAITE
There were a few, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Kind of like that confusion and that that, I mean, that does crystallise that, that verification of the audience drama that this, this series is is aggressively marketing and catering to to. Radically different audiences and as opposed to Bob and Heimer.
SOPHIA STAITE
Ohh beautiful segue, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
I think we're. Important. Yes, Bob and Heimer, which is really about, you know, you watch these two completely opposite media pieces, but they work together, right? So you mean breakfast? You have breakfast? That's cigarettes and coffee. And then you watch Oppenheimer, and then it's lunchtime and you have hoses. I don't know. Cocktail drink and watch Barbie and. And you're the same person doing that.
Speaker
I'm the most serious man to drink.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I'm a Moser or a mojito.
CRAIG NORRIS
There you go. Mojito. Well, I'm not the audience that's been. Telling all these articles. My hoses anyway, so as opposed to that here we have a the within as opposed to two texts that come together for one audience. Here we have two audience and one text. But those two audiences, while they share the same space and time. Don't share the same kind of ancillary content.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah. And even the way that that the text is read, you know, there are so many different ways you can read the text, which is something that I really love about the show. So the heated drama between men, you know, if you're a 5 year old boy, you're probably thinking, wow, these guys are really good friends. And if you're that boys mother, you're probably thinking. Something slightly different, and both of those readings are valid and both are encouraged by the text.
CRAIG NORRIS
Is there anything within Shinkansen Raider that speaks to that kind of heated male drama? I mean, there's the two come around 1:00. And two that appear but. It it it, it appears to be a most. I didn't see it. Did you see? Anything that was a bit more.
SOPHIA STAITE
I mean, there's something. Yeah, at the very end. But I don't wanna spoil the film, so we'll just leave that to people.
Speaker
Oh well, yeah, come on.
CRAIG NORRIS
No, stuff it, I mean. It's always the journey, not. The end I'm interested in this point and we've got 2 minutes left so I can risk it because yeah, what happens is.
SOPHIA STAITE
Boiler roulette.
CRAIG NORRIS
Killer alert, but tune back in for K Pop Unlimited at five. OK, So what happens at the end of the film is Colorado, one dies. And his soul goes into the helmet. Right. Yeah and. This is the scene you're talking about. Where they're kind of together on the riding the motorbike and there's this style.
SOPHIA STAITE
Yeah. So, Hayato, who's this? Who's coming? Rider 2 puts on the helmet that has come and rider one in and come and ride. A1 says I feel what you feel. I can feel the wind. You know? Yeah. Like I can tap into your senses and they're, you know, for the slightly lower brow Twitter crowd, there was a lot of speculation about what he might be feeling and when and how long the helmet would stay on and. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
I'm yeah, I'm so naive.
SOPHIA STAITE
I'm sorry for bringing filth to your esteem show.
CRAIG NORRIS
Not at all. But I'm so I wish we had another hour. We'll get you back. Get you back. Watch the other shin movies, see if there's any homoeroticism in Godzilla. Dramatic pools. I'm absolutely hopeless. Yeah. Give me, like, 5 seconds time that that effect will trigger. So fascinating. Sophia, I'm again.
SOPHIA STAITE
Santa Fe.
CRAIG NORRIS
You know someone that was in the sidelines of supervising this project. It's brilliant to see it come to fruition in this way. Such fascinating. Deep dives into material that isn't widely unknown. Sadly in the West, but wonderfully timed with Shin Master. Writer that you can see on Amazon Prime any I hate to say final words. Because we do. Hope to get you back, but any words to that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
SOPHIA STAITE
Also on Amazon Prime is Carmen Rider, Black Sun, and that does use Carmen Rider, not masked rider, which it's interesting that they've split them apart in that way. But come and ride. A black sun is an R rated definitely an adult because of the violence, but it's a kind of a deconstruction of the common rider mythology. For me it's a much more. It's a series, not a film. Very, very interesting. Real deep dive into Japanese politics, so definitely not an entry point if you're not familiar with Japanese politics or carbon rider, but really worth watching if you want something quite grim and quite a brutal deconstruction of our base.
Speaker
Such a great.
CRAIG NORRIS
Point, because I do think we get so focused on the boys and the deconstruction of superheroes in the West that we're at this. Point that we forget that the. There are incredible lineages of these narratives outside of the West, like Japan, which are producing as sophisticated, if not more sophisticated kind of permutations on the ramifications of these icons of power, masculinity, femininity, and so so well worth checking out is there. How can people reach out to you, Sophia, if they want to find out more about your?
SOPHIA STAITE
Research. Can they pardon? I have a YouTube channel where I am. The absolute state of the research state is STAITE and the absolute state of the research.
CRAIG NORRIS
So what's it called state? Great. I I should know this.
SOPHIA STAITE
It's really not very exciting though. I just upload conference conference presentations, but if you. Oh wow, this is going to sound incredibly egotistical, but if you look at any academic paper on Carmen writer, it's probably mine. There are. Approximately three other people who have ever written about it in English, so yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, here we go. In Tasmania, World leading authority come and write us. Sophia State signings if you want to come outside the studio next time signings here, but well done, Sophia. Absolutely fantastic. Do have to get you back on again to deep dive into that final sequence. In cinemas Strider.
SOPHIA STAITE
We didn't even talk about Japanese Spiderman, so there's so many avenues left unexplored.
CRAIG NORRIS
Totally, totally. So again, yeah, SSN. Now, if you'd like to more 0488811707 coming up next. We've got key pop unlimited. With little Taylor. No, TJ, TJ and DJ CJ.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
There we go. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Any tips for the audience?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
It's like the the the same thing that it was like 3 weeks ago. Every song goes into. The next song? Really.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because you know between 3 weeks we've completely lost. I took over. I'm limited and played a. Lot of Godzilla soundtrack music. During that time. Anyway, great. So keep listening 5:00 o'clock. This has been media mothership for another week. Thank you so much for coming on. And you can find out more about her work at the absolute state of the research at YouTube.
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